A Decade Never to be Forgotten

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[00:00:00] Jethro Jones: All right, so let's get started. Hi, Staci.

[00:00:13] Staci Jones: Hi, Jethro.

[00:00:16] Jethro Jones: All right. So this is, uh, me and my wife Staci, and we've got a whole bunch of things that we can talk about and the, the kids are home, so there might be some background noise. Might

[00:00:35] Staci Jones: probably will be,

[00:00:37] Jethro Jones: and by might, I mean, definitely will be. So Staci let's start with, uh, what, uh, what brought you to this point?

[00:00:46] Staci Jones: Well, um, 20 and a half years ago I said yes to marrying you, and now I sit on the couch with you in the interview. It's pretty much, probably to this point.

[00:00:57] Jethro Jones: Good one. Good one. Um, so let's talk a little bit more deeply than that though. What, uh. What brought you to this point in your, in your life? What are some of the situations or instances that have defined who you are?

[00:01:15] Staci Jones: Well, I wouldn't say there was much from my childhood that defined who I was. I feel like a lot of my childhood was pretty, I guess, sheltered and happy. So I didn't, I don't feel like, I know that there was like struggles in my childhood, but I don't really feel like I was exposed to them as much. So I don't feel like I learned a lot or grew a lot from that.

[00:01:40] Staci Jones: Um, and probably, you know, even my young adulthood was probably pretty trial less until I got married. So you

[00:01:51] Jethro Jones: didn't really have many trials until you got married. Okay. I mean, that's good to know. All right. Thank you. I mean,

[00:01:57] Staci Jones: I know there were, but I just didn't, there were nothing that was really taxing on me.

[00:02:03] Staci Jones: But it was probably, I mean, once we started having kids was probably when it started.

[00:02:12] Jethro Jones: Yeah. How so? Talk about that.

[00:02:16] Staci Jones: Well, you know, I live such a life of where I felt, um, well sheltered. So I didn't get exposed to a lot of like, just things like, I mean, I had, there was people I was exposed to, but I didn't really think about much about it.

[00:02:33] Staci Jones: But, um, with our first child being born with Down syndrome mm-Hmm. I think that just opened my eyes to so much more that I probably just turned kind of a blind eye too.

[00:02:44] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:02:45] Staci Jones: And just the trials that come with having a kid with special needs and just navigating that whole new lifestyle. Like, you grow up thinking, oh, I'm just gonna have, you know, I'm gonna have kids and they're gonna be great and they're gonna be healthy and they're just gonna be normal.

[00:02:59] Staci Jones: I. And you know, now I just look back and I think there's not a single kid in the world that's normal.

[00:03:06] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Yep.

[00:03:07] Staci Jones: They're all unique and different and I mean, it wasn't a, it wasn't a bad thing and it never was a bad thing to have a kids with special needs to open my eyes that way. It was what it was needed for me to probably realize the greatness in the world than I was had seen so far in my life.

[00:03:28] Staci Jones: Like, there was so much more to the world than I'd seen. Mm-Hmm. And it's not like I lived, like, I didn't grow up in the same house, in the same city forever. Like, we moved around, I started new schools as a kid. I started new, a new high school my freshman year. Like I didn't have a lot of friends, but like that wasn't really a big trial.

[00:03:47] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:03:48] Staci Jones: That didn't really shape me in really any of a way. I mean, I spent my whole life just trying to fit in and make friends, but, Mm-Hmm. When you're in a situation where. You know, you, there's, when you have a kid with special needs, there's just not a place for you to fit in, in most of the world around you.

[00:04:10] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Yep. Well, and if, if I can give my perspective on that, what I really noticed when Katya was born was that my expectations about what life would be like and what raising kids would be like, and all that stuff was just completely, uh, was completely wrong. I thought it was gonna be a certain way. And then, um, and then I learned that it, it wasn't that way.

[00:04:41] Jethro Jones: And I, I guess a good way to illustrate that is, uh, you know, when you have siblings and they start having kids, then everybody's like. What, what kid is gonna walk first? What kid's gonna get the best score on the SAT? You know, what kid's gonna be an athlete? All these things that you start comparing. And as soon as Katya was born, all of those comparisons, they just went out the window and they never, they didn't matter anymore.

[00:05:08] Jethro Jones: And for me, that was a big, a big thing to see the difference of what that looked like, uh, compared to what it was before that. I cared about that before. And then once she was born, I just, it didn't matter. And I realized, like you said, that every person is unique and nobody is quote unquote normal. And, uh, for me, as far as like my profession as an educator goes, that was huge.

[00:05:39] Jethro Jones: That made a huge impact on how I saw situations at schools and working with kids and teachers, and it just made a big, a big impact. Mm-Hmm.

[00:05:50] Jethro Jones: So besides that, uh, I understand being married to me is tough, so, but it's the best. Well, that's good. Um, so I, I thought it'd be good to talk a little bit about the, the mental load aspect because, um, a big part of getting married is starting to share parts of your life with people that you were just responsible for before, and, and that's different than what we're, what we're used to.

[00:06:26] Jethro Jones: So, uh, let's talk a little bit about that mental load aspect and what you, how you have perceived that and what that's like running a, a household and, um, having a, a husband who you define as. Being a trial

[00:06:42] Staci Jones: to find you as being a trial. It's not what I said, it's my eyes have been opened to life since being married, which totally makes sense.

[00:06:53] Staci Jones: You're not a trial. I know. I'm just teasing trials with you. But yes, sometimes it is trying to be married too, but not always. Yes, I know that. So I mean, when you go from like before you get married, you just pretty much are in the mode of thinking of yourself. And even when you get married, there's just one other person.

[00:07:14] Staci Jones: So you kind of navigate that. You kind of break into that a little bit as you like are dating and stuff, and you're like, oh no, I fit you into my life. And you know, oh, I think about you for this, and I think about you for that. And so when you get married, it's kind of a little bit more of that. But when you have kids, it really starts to shift, especially when you have a kid with special needs.

[00:07:33] Staci Jones: I think that brings on a whole lot of stuff that you never. Even thought about before, like I think it's really hard to explain mental loads to people who don't hold that

[00:07:44] Jethro Jones: microphone a little bit closer to you who aren't pull it over.

[00:07:48] Staci Jones: I think it's hard to explain, oh, much better mental loads to people who you know aren't married and don't have kids because, you know, it adds, adding humans to your family, someone that you're responsible for is so much different than just like, taking care of yourself. Mm-Hmm. 'cause when you think about taking care of yourself, like you didn't change your own diapers, you didn't make sure you were fed as a kid for, for the most part, for people.

[00:08:12] Staci Jones: Some people have to worry about that. Um, but for the most part, you don't worry about feeding yourself as a baby and taking care of yourself as a kid and like providing things for like that. And you know, as you grow up, you get trained in that. But then when you have kids and have a spouse, it's a whole different, you now take on the role of training other people and.

[00:08:34] Staci Jones: I never really thought about the mental load when I was growing up. Um, and Jeff and I have had discussion about that quite a lot lately, um, about mental loads and understanding that him versus me, and I'm gonna say that I, I'm a recovering perfectionist because I was probably a non recovery perfectionist for probably the first 15 years Mm-Hmm.

[00:08:57] Staci Jones: Of our marriage. And I know for me it was, it had to be perfect. And so I couldn't let go of any of a load that I was carrying at all. And so I carried most of that by myself and not letting, not even anyone getting a chance to take any of that and almost being, it being so much of a burden to me and making out that it was a burden to me.

[00:09:24] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. That nobody could do what I could do. But as that, the last, so,

[00:09:27] Jethro Jones: so on that piece. You're right. Nobody can do what you can do. And certainly nobody can do it in exact the same way as you would do it. And so a lot of the problems that we had in the beginning were about truthfully me not doing it, quote unquote.

[00:09:44] Jethro Jones: Right. Because your way was the only right way to do things. Right. I mean,

[00:09:50] Staci Jones: it, it still is, but you just have finally learned. Yeah. And I mean, and that is based on like my perfectionist tendencies, like with everything that I've done. Mm-Hmm. Not just, you know, in our marriage, in our family. Um, but becoming a recovering perfectionist has helped me understand that mental load a lot more.

[00:10:12] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And understanding, you know, I like things done a certain way, but it's not necessarily all the time because I'm a perfectionist. It's also because. If it's done a certain way, it's like connected to other things that I'm doing to make things function at the highest possible way, and to be most efficient to execute all the things that I'm carrying.

[00:10:34] Staci Jones: Yeah. At the same time. So, and I've gotten away from like having the dishwasher load a certain way now that our kids do that finally. Oh man. And they do their own laundry and stuff now, so I don't have to worry about it being folded and put away. I just don't go into their rooms. Yeah. For like a whole

[00:10:49] Jethro Jones: week.

[00:10:50] Jethro Jones: So, so let's talk about that aspect of everything being connected, because you had a, what I think is a really interesting way to describe this. And you talked about our mental load being like, uh, a hundred pounds of weights, uh, on our shoulders. And, and you, you had a really great way to describe that. So you.

[00:11:12] Jethro Jones: Uh, describe that and I can help you remember if you forget.

[00:11:16] Staci Jones: I told him yesterday I just have one good idea today and don't ask me to repeat it. 'cause I most likely won't remember it there. So we'll see if I can actually remember it. Well, I think that one of the things that I've also had to embrace is understanding that the mental load that Jethro carries is still a heavy mental load, even if it's not the same as mine.

[00:11:31] Staci Jones: So in order to, I think for a good marriage you have to recognize that, you know, you're both carrying mental loads and not one has to be necessarily more than the others to be like that. You're the better parent. Oh, I'm the better spouse and the better parent. 'cause my mental load is so much more. But if you recognize where their mental load lies, like, so I'll recognize that Jeter's mental I load lies in providing for our family.

[00:11:57] Staci Jones: So, and my mental load lies in a lot of other things, but his mental load is going to equal a hundred pounds, just like my mental load's gonna equal a hundred pounds. Um, their equal loads that we're both carrying, but. When you look at it, if you think about a scale and you think about like weights that you use like in the gym, like bar barbells, barbells, barbells, dumbbells, kettle balls.

[00:12:18] Staci Jones: Yeah. Not kettle balls. Those, but you think about that. So he may have like, his weight of providing for the family is like a 50 pound weight and his, and then he, he's got some other weights, like some five or 10 pound weights. The other things that he does to provide that all add up to a hundred and my a hundred pounds is like a five pound weight and a two pound weight and a three pound weight and a 10 pound weight and the 15 pound weight.

[00:12:46] Staci Jones: All like a huge variety of different sizes of weights all adding up to a hundred pounds. mm-Hmm. And so going back to like me letting go of control, 'cause nobody does it right. It's partly because my. Weights in my mental load are all connected. Like, you can't just pick up one and just toss, give it to somebody else, or transfer it over to you without disrupting every single one of them that's on there.

[00:13:12] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. It's everything. Mental load is, it's all connected on my side.

[00:13:19] Jethro Jones: Yeah. So to illustrate this real quick, is we, uh, went on a trip for Thanksgiving and, uh, we needed to, like, things needed to be packed, food needed to be packed, and there were several things that, uh, that needed to happen in a certain way.

[00:13:35] Jethro Jones: Like to pack our clothes, you needed to do the laundry on Monday. Mm-Hmm. When we were leaving on Wednesday so that you could have it ready to go and have it packed. And so that is connected in that I. Other kids, the kids need to do their laundry also. And so you had to get yours done when it would work for you and make sure that the washing machine was available for the kids to do theirs.

[00:14:01] Jethro Jones: And then when it came time to pack itself, you had made a list and you know, for, for someone to just take something off of your plate doesn't always work out just like that. And one really good example was I, I had gotten the carton of egg whites and taken it out of the fridge and put it with the Turkey because I knew we were gonna bring the egg whites with us on the trip.

[00:14:27] Jethro Jones: And I put it with the Turkey and you took it off of the Turkey because you wanted it in the cold bag with all the other cold stuff. And I had already set it aside. So I said, oh, I already got the egg whites. And you said. Okay. And then you put the egg whites back. But I didn't realize that you had taken the egg whites from the Turkey where they were and put them, uh, in the bag with the other cold stuff, which means that we eventually forgot them.

[00:14:57] Jethro Jones: Now, part of that is we could have just communicated better and I said, oh, I got the egg whites there with the Turkey. And you would've said, oh, I took 'em from the Turkey and we're good. But that didn't happen. Right? Well,

[00:15:07] Staci Jones: I You put 'em back in the fridge, like I put 'em in the cooler to put everything on top and you grabbed them and put it back.

[00:15:12] Staci Jones: 'cause you're like, oh, I already had grabbed them out. So Staci put another one in the cooler.

[00:15:15] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:15:16] Staci Jones: But it was like, oh, that's, those go in the cooler. They're cold. All the cold stuff goes in the cooler. Mm-Hmm. Like, that's just my mental process of making sure everything gets packed.

[00:15:24] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And so, and you still forgot.

[00:15:27] Jethro Jones: Nobody understands that. And you still forgot the yeast.

[00:15:29] Staci Jones: I did because I can't remember everything.

[00:15:32] Jethro Jones: Well, and this is, this is a good point that even if I took some of that mental load off of you, like. You, you still can't even let it go. Yeah. Right.

[00:15:43] Staci Jones: And yeah, and a lot of times, like things that are kind of like a list of all the food, sometimes that is even a trigger to say, like as I'm running down the list, I'm running through the recipes in my head.

[00:15:56] Staci Jones: Be like, okay, this is for this, this, this. And if I forget something because I'm running down the list, it'll pop in my head

[00:16:02] Jethro Jones: genius.

[00:16:03] Staci Jones: And I'll be like, oh, I forgot to add these. Let me just grab the yeast. But when it's being helped and I'm not even seeing the list or checking things off, like the, the connections in my brain are not connecting because something got taken off.

[00:16:17] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And so when we. Other people look at a list, we don't see it as this connected thing to all the recipes and everything else. We see it as these are the things that we need to bring with us. And so it's a checklist for sure. And for you, it's a connected list, which is a different thing entirely than just a checklist.

[00:16:39] Staci Jones: Yeah. And it's like the other day you said, you know, you just use our family calendar. I was like, my mental load, what I have to remember doesn't fit in a family calendar. I use a paper planner because it is connections.

[00:16:52] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like

[00:16:52] Staci Jones: I see it, it's visually connected to some other event in my brain or in my calendar itself that a digital calendar cannot, it can't substitute for what the paper one does in that sense.

[00:17:05] Staci Jones: Yeah. Like, yeah, it says, oh, pack for the trip. But like, you know, our daughter, I had to make sure her laundry got washed, her shoes at school, she can't carry it down the stairs herself. So I'd have to do it. Like all that is all connected

[00:17:18] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:19] Staci Jones: Down to everything. And so like, yeah, I'll write out a list for what needs to be packed, but it's just like the surface level of what you see is, is going on.

[00:17:28] Jethro Jones: Yeah. So, so it's one thing for me to be like, oh, let me, let me help out around the house, which, you know, is kind of pejorative anyway that I'm helping. Like that's not really what we're going for. We're you and I are are one, or at least we're trying to be. Mm-Hmm. And, and so these little things like helping around the house.

[00:17:51] Jethro Jones: If, if I take that over, I'm still, I still can't take it completely off of your load, even if I do it all the time. Because you're still thinking about le let's take breakfast for instance. Mm-Hmm. I make you breakfast pretty much every single day. Mm-Hmm. And if, if I don't make it, you don't eat. So

[00:18:10] Staci Jones: I try to relinquish that mental love to you.

[00:18:11] Staci Jones: Yeah. So you have to show up to make Yeah, exactly. If you're gone, I do eat.

[00:18:14] Jethro Jones: I know. I'm just tea. Occasionally I forget. So, so with this, like, I make breakfast every single day, but your part of your morning routine is making sure that all the kids are ready to get outta the house and taking care and helping them get breakfast and all that kind of stuff too.

[00:18:30] Jethro Jones: So all that I'm doing is being the, the connected checklist for you eating. Mm-Hmm. And you're still doing all those other things that are connected to, uh, to making breakfast that is not particularly. That's, there's more to it than just making the actual meal. Right?

[00:18:52] Staci Jones: Yeah. 'cause someone's gotta shop for it.

[00:18:54] Staci Jones: Someone's gotta make sure you got the food. Someone's gotta make sure the dishes are clean to eat with, the pads are clean. You know, it's not just like one thing. It's all connected and you can't just take one thing off, um, to, to take that load away from somebody.

[00:19:09] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Even

[00:19:11] Staci Jones: when, like, I think about when we go on trips, just you and I, we went on one last year and just the mental load in preparing to leave for a trip, I just didn't walk out the door.

[00:19:24] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And I still wasn't out the door when we were gone. Yeah. There was still things that had to be texted about and Mm-Hmm. You know, it's like, it's all connected and it's, it's forever connected.

[00:19:38] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And, and it always will be. Right. Mm-Hmm. And so I think the thing that's been really good for us in this, in this recent breakthrough is understanding that we each have a mental load.

[00:19:48] Jethro Jones: That one is not, uh, more important, more important or heavier than the other that we just, we, we look at them differently and we experience them differently. So like, even if like the providing for the family mental load that I carry, that feels very heavy to me. Even though you do make money for things like, uh, doing balloons and, uh, working at secure intimacy, um, even though you bring in money, I still feel the burden of providing for the family.

[00:20:27] Jethro Jones: And, you know, uh, like you've, you've never had a full-time job since we've had kids. And so it's always, I've always been the breadwinner and that's how we wanted it. That's how we set it up. That's how we planned on it. And we're both grateful for that. But I feel like even if you were making a full-time salary, I still feel like the pressure, I would still feel the pressure of providing for the family.

[00:20:56] Jethro Jones: Even if you were, were bringing income in as well. Just like you still feel the pressure to make sure everybody gets out the door in the morning, even if I'm totally taking care of breakfast or I'm taking care of all of those things. Mm-hmm. You're still gonna feel that pressure because that's part of who you are and what your role is.

[00:21:15] Jethro Jones: Does that make sense or am I missing the mark?

[00:21:16] Staci Jones: It does, but I also think it has to do with how we were both raised.

[00:21:20] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. In our

[00:21:20] Staci Jones: personalities. Like, I think that in other people's relationships, those mental loads might sit differently.

[00:21:26] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:21:26] Staci Jones: Based on their personalities and how they were raised and how they've structured their families.

[00:21:29] Staci Jones: Like for us, that's how it is for us. But I think the concept of the mental loads being equal, but, but different. Mm-Hmm. For spouses. The same across any marriage. I think sometimes it just sits differently based on their family dynamics.

[00:21:44] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:21:45] Staci Jones: Yeah. And their personalities and their upbringing.

[00:21:47] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And, and where it gets, I think, really bad for people is when one person has a much heavier load because the other person is refusing to carry one or, uh, incapable of carrying one or whatever the case may be.

[00:22:05] Jethro Jones: Um, and that's not us, thankfully, because we both are fully committed to carrying our own loads. And, um, I don't know that it's always been that way, but I do feel like it is that way now.

[00:22:19] Staci Jones: Well, and I think it can easily not be that way, but I think a key to that is communication. I think if you're willing to communicate and say, Hey, this feels heavy.

[00:22:27] Staci Jones: Like I feel like I'm doing a lot Mm-Hmm. Like this is, could you help with this? Or even I feel like this is the load I'm carrying and then you're not carrying alone. Just having that open communication. Can actually like, even out the loads a lot more than you think. 'cause you're putting like this phantom weight sometimes on a load that actually isn't really there, but you're making it there because of the lack of communication.

[00:22:51] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, and, and the other aspect to that is that we, we are certainly not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Um, and, uh, I wouldn't even say that our marriage is perfect. I think we have a lot of room to grow in that, and we don't always express those needs and how we're feeling about that, um, in healthy or appropriate or even good ways.

[00:23:19] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. You know, sometimes we just get mad, bury it deep and get mad, you know? And, and what was, what's been fun about having this open communication is, especially with that Thanksgiving example, I. Is that there were numerous times where later on we're like, Hey, there's that mental load thing again.

[00:23:38] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And just being able to talk about it and not be getting mad at each other about it has been, has been really awesome. I've really enjoyed that. Yeah.

[00:23:48] Staci Jones: It's what I tell our kids all the time, like bringing what is bothering you out of the darkness. Mm-Hmm. Like bricks shining light on it, lessens it, and helps it so much.

[00:23:59] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. So if you're willing to talk about the mental load that you feel like you're carrying, you know, it actually takes a lot of that phantom weight off. Yeah. And it just makes it better, like everything if you just bring it out and not hold it in and just talk about it.

[00:24:15] Jethro Jones: Yeah. It, it really does. And it, and it makes it so that you know, this, this expands to other things, uh, sin and uh.

[00:24:25] Jethro Jones: Inappropriate behavior, frustrations, anger, all that stuff. This all extends to that. And, and as you are honest and open about things, it, it makes it possible for you to get over it, you know? And, and it, when you're, when you're suffering and silence and in the darkness, then it's really, really challenging and it's really tough and it's really lonely.

[00:24:51] Jethro Jones: But when you can share that with other people, then it, it helps both of you. And, you know, that that is a really big deal. And it's not, it's not always easy to do that, but it's definitely worthwhile when it does happen.

[00:25:07] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Well, and I think that's a good, just a good marriage lesson too, is like Mm-Hmm.

[00:25:14] Staci Jones: You have to be willing to talk about things you've never wanna talk about and have conversations you just wish the other person raise your mind on.

[00:25:23] Jethro Jones: Oh man.

[00:25:25] Staci Jones: Because you know, when you sit there and just like hold things in, like you grew a lot of resentment and things don't get talked about. You know, problems don't get solved.

[00:25:36] Staci Jones: Solutions don't get made. Two brains are so much better than one.

[00:25:40] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:25:41] Staci Jones: Um, even if they're totally different brains, it just allows that freedom of communication across to allow ideas and knowledge and inspiration to flow. Mm-Hmm. And so many times, like I remember the first couple years of our marriage, we just wouldn't talk about things.

[00:25:58] Staci Jones: Yeah. We like okay. Maybe like the first 10, 15 years sometimes Yeah. There's things we just wouldn't talk about. Um, but I think that you just have to be, I mean, the buzzword is like vulnerable, like

[00:26:13] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:26:14] Staci Jones: You just have to be willing to be vulnerable, like you've committed to share your life with somebody.

[00:26:20] Staci Jones: That means also like. Sharing the things that scare you, the things that you're embarrassed by. Mm-Hmm. The things that you don't really hold my phone down just a little bit.

[00:26:30] Jethro Jones: Okay. Yeah. You keep going out of it, so sorry. That's okay.

[00:26:35] Staci Jones: So it just means like, just being able to talk about, you know, things that are, you're, you're often afraid of to say out loud.

[00:26:42] Staci Jones: Yeah. Like that you're just wanna keep in darkness because it just is so scary to say out loud. Mm-Hmm.

[00:26:48] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And it's really easy to keep those things hidden and, uh, stay away from 'em because you do feel like it's negative and that it's gonna be bad no matter what you do. And, but it doesn't have to be.

[00:27:02] Jethro Jones: And you can find, uh, find some peace and, and stuff there as well. Mm-Hmm. So, um, one of the other things that I want to talk about.

[00:27:18] Jethro Jones: So, one of the other things I wanna talk about is this idea, uh, that you've shared about, um, your own spiritual growth and how you've been able to grow and how, um, you've wanted to be a scriptor and things, and how that has come to pass. Do you wanna talk about that or do you want me to ask more directed questions?

[00:27:41] Jethro Jones: I would

[00:27:42] Staci Jones: never say I wanted to be a script because I feel like that is like, has such a, uh, pressurized and like connotation that I just don't

[00:27:56] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well I just don't

[00:27:57] Staci Jones: like it. Why

[00:27:58] Jethro Jones: don't you like it? Tell me about that.

[00:27:59] Staci Jones: I just don't like it because. It makes it feel like, it makes, it puts so much pressure to know the scriptures back forth and everything about it.

[00:28:12] Staci Jones: Like you're not just a scriptor, you're like a historian, you're a whatever. That fancy word. Anthropologist. Anthropologist. You're someone who knows the languages, who understands everything. Like it to me, a

[00:28:24] Jethro Jones: linguist.

[00:28:25] Staci Jones: A linguist. Thank you. Yeah. I was like, I knew it was some fancy word to me, it seems like it's more than just like the one word script.

[00:28:31] Staci Jones: It's like so much, and I feel like it's only you have to meet a certain benchmark of knowledge to be considered a scriptor. Mm-Hmm. And like, I just don't like that. And I, it just, it feels really uncomfortable probably because like, I've sat in classes where, at church, where people have said, oh, this person is a scriptor.

[00:29:00] Staci Jones: Like. Let's, they're the best teacher ever. Let's laud all of our praise on them. We have to have them teach. They have to speak at every fireside because they know so much. Mm-Hmm. And I, it just, it kind of hurts ev in my opinion. It kind of hurts everybody else who tries to know the scriptures.

[00:29:20] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:29:21] Staci Jones: Because they don't have maybe 10, 15 hours a week to sit down and go through all the history of the he, the, the Israelites and all their kings. And like, that's, that's probably, it may not be even the correct definition of scriptor. Yeah. But that's what that word feels like to me. And especially like as someone with kids, like my kids are teenagers now.

[00:29:46] Staci Jones: Um, I, I didn't like that word when my kids were young. 'cause I was like, how on earth do you find 10 minutes uninterrupted to read your scriptures? Mm-Hmm. Let alone like hours a week. To become so knowledgeable that in Sunday school, people will actually listen to you because you know the scriptures

[00:30:03] Jethro Jones: well.

[00:30:04] Jethro Jones: And and that is a key piece here because, um, because many times you have felt like your good ideas were not validated because you didn't have, uh, the, the pedigree of a quote unquote scriptor. Mm-Hmm. And, and this is, you know, it, it's funny because you do spend hours a week citing the scriptures. Now

[00:30:29] Staci Jones: I feel like 20 minutes a day,

[00:30:30] Jethro Jones: uh, it seems like more

[00:30:32] Staci Jones: No, it's just 'cause I'm so knowledgeable now.

[00:30:34] Staci Jones: It seems like more

[00:30:35] Jethro Jones: it does. Well, and this is, this is another important point that this doesn't happen because you spend 10 hours a week, it happens because you spend 20 minutes every day. Mm-Hmm. And, and so your annoyance with the term scriptor really comes back to this idea that. It is a status symbol and it's about pride.

[00:30:57] Jethro Jones: And you're not a prideful person, unlike your husband. And so you're not interested in that. You, and you're not even interested in really knowing the scriptures. You're more interested in knowing Christ. What's the difference between those two things?

[00:31:12] Staci Jones: So I think knowing the scriptures in that term is like when you know the definitions of all the words, you know, the history, you know, like the geography, you know the language like that.

[00:31:25] Staci Jones: And you can tell the exact movement in the maps of the old world, like of Jerusalem area, like where like you could look at a blank map and label everything. Mm-Hmm. Oh, this is where this happened. This is where this happened, this, this, this. Give me a map now I have no idea. It needs to be labeled if you want me to know anything.

[00:31:42] Staci Jones: And like labeled with the routes too. Like this is where Jesus walked. Like this is the way. Yeah, because I won't even remember half the cities. Um, so to me like that would be knowing the scriptures. Like knowing Christ, I feel comes from, um, studying his word in the scriptures, but leaving the door open to personal revelation.

[00:32:06] Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:08] Staci Jones: Because the scriptures are written for us, but they're written in such a way that you can reread them every single year and every single year it'll speak differently to you. Um, we have all these words that from Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, in the New Testament, in the Book of Mormon, in the doctrine and covenants given at different timeframes throughout the history of the world, but they are all like cohesive and they all, it's the same.

[00:32:42] Staci Jones: He is our heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. They don't change. Their words are the same throughout all the times. If we look at, if we look at, just read through the scriptures, like the timeframes in each is different. Like the Old Testament is different than the New Testament. The New Testament was different than the Book of Mormon.

[00:33:01] Staci Jones: The Book of Mormon was a different time than the doctrine and covenants, but the words stayed the same. So the application of those words to the prophets of the people at that time was different in each of the different books, just like every time we read them. It's different in our lives based on our circumstances, based on what we are willing to hear the spirit speak to us.

[00:33:24] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like that's where I think you become to get to know Christ.

[00:33:31] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:33:32] Staci Jones: It's deeper than just reading and knowing the geography. It's opening up your heart and your life to say, I'm reading this. How is it applying to my life? How? How are you speaking to me? At this point in my life reading this story.

[00:33:50] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Well, and what I find so amazing about that is that as you have taken that perspective over the last five or so years, um, probably a little bit longer, your, your, your testimony, your like intensity of what you say and what you know has, uh, has grown tremendously. And, um, one of the things that you have said numerous times is that you have never felt like you were that knowledgeable or had that strong of a testimony.

[00:34:26] Jethro Jones: And now, like there's no doubt. And like you are, you've always been to me, one of the most faithful women I've ever known. But you didn't believe that about yourself.

[00:34:38] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Well, and I think I struggled to believe that about myself because like. When you hear about faithful women, usually it's equated with scripts.

[00:34:46] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like, oh, they knew the scriptures back and forth. They could teach any scripture story. Or they knew every single scripture, doctrinal mastery or scripture mastery from seminary. Like I am pretty terrible at memorizing things like, I can't remember words of most songs. Mm-Hmm. I can't remember most movie lines.

[00:35:07] Staci Jones: I just can't, that stuff that I just struggle with is, I struggle with memorizing. And so like that, like I always felt like that was equated with being faithful is being able to recite all the scriptures or know the scriptures back and forth.

[00:35:23] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:35:23] Staci Jones: And like I couldn't do it. And. Uh, I just, it was kind of a wound.

[00:35:31] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Well, and one of the things that we focused on with our kids for years was the importance of personal revelation. And, and that is something that you have absolutely taken to heart and, uh, leaned on yourself, uh, tremendously. And, and that's, you know, we, we would talk with our kids about this is what, these are the things that really matter.

[00:35:59] Jethro Jones: And it became a running joke that every time we asked a gospel question or a church related question, then the kids would answer. It is about, um, the, the answer is personal revelation. And that's always how we would focus and how we would talk about it. That, that was the key. Mm-Hmm. Personal revelation and, um.

[00:36:23] Jethro Jones: That has been a really powerful thing for all of us to have that be the focus because it really does make a difference when that's the focus.

[00:36:32] Staci Jones: Yeah. And I really love that, that is what President Nelson has been emphasizing a lot lately because I think that growing up that was something that was probably missing that was not talked about for me.

[00:36:43] Staci Jones: And I'm so glad that the youth have that today. Mm-Hmm. Um, I teach Sunday school, you know that.

[00:36:49] Jethro Jones: Yeah. But the listeners might not, but nobody else,

[00:36:52] Staci Jones: but you guys don't. Um, so I teach Sunday school for kids that are like 12 to 14, 15 ish. Mm-Hmm. Like the upper elementary, middle school kids freshman year of high school.

[00:37:05] Staci Jones: And um, it is pretty amazing. And I've been in the ward that we're in right now, we've lived here for four and a half years. And before Sunday school I was in Young Women's. And so I've had, you know, these kids for. In some capacity, the, the girls, the young women for some capacity for the last four years, for most of them.

[00:37:25] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Some of them have graduated out of my group, but, um, I taught a bunch of 'em last year too. Mm-Hmm. And the amazing thing is, is like kids these days are brilliant. Like they, I mean, it's prophesied. They will be. And, and I see it in them as they sit in my stem school class and share these insights that I as a teenager would never, ever have thought of.

[00:37:48] Staci Jones: Um, just because how things I felt like were structured when I was a teenager, it was like, this is one right answer and this is one wrong answer. Mm-Hmm. I mean, I could go on a soapbox about that forever. You, for me, me before. Well, uh, let's do it. I think you should take the

[00:38:01] Jethro Jones: time to do it because it, it is so key.

[00:38:04] Staci Jones: I'll immortalize my soapbox. Yeah. That's the only

[00:38:06] Jethro Jones: place. So it's so key to how you teach now. Mm-Hmm. And how you teach our kids. It's, it's just, it's totally valuable. So go ahead. All right. And I'm on the same soapbox too, so it's great.

[00:38:18] Staci Jones: So I, I've always struggled with Sunday school and I told, for my whole entire marriage, I told Jethro I never want to be a Sunday school teacher because A, I wasn't a scriptor, I didn't have enough knowledge to teach a Sunday school class without feeling like the biggest idiot pretty much.

[00:38:35] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And like, the shift to come follow me, that program is like, I think for me has been life changing. I think for those who have embraced it, it's also been life changing. I think it's also life changing in church if we allow it to be. Mm-Hmm. Like the whole basis is home centered. Church supported.

[00:38:53] Jethro Jones: Yep.

[00:38:54] Staci Jones: And if we can remember that, like that's a key to remembering in our leading of discussions. I don't call it teaching 'cause Mm-Hmm. It's not really, you're not really teaching a lesson anymore. You're leading a discussion.

[00:39:05] Jethro Jones: Well, and if I can just interject here real quick. Um. The last time that I taught Sunday school as a, as a teacher, like I have the knowledge that I'm dispensing it to you was when I was, uh, in college and taught Sunday school.

[00:39:22] Jethro Jones: And I was in that class. You were, yeah. That was when you fell in love with me. And, uh, and the, the thing is, is that then I, I was really focused on learning a ton and being seen as really smart and knowledgeable and, and I realized that I was doing all this work and I was growing tremendously. And I thought, this just isn't right.

[00:39:45] Jethro Jones: That I'm the one who's doing all the work and I'm the one who's growing tremendously. I want people to come to my Sunday school classes and, uh, and, and get that themselves. And the thing that is, that is interesting is that, um, that was the last time that I taught in that way and in all these years. Of us being, uh, married and in the church.

[00:40:11] Jethro Jones: I have, I have not taught that way. Like the, the teachers one with the, with all the knowledge. What I have done is what you do and what I would tell you all the time, like, you don't have to be a scriptor to be a good teacher, you have to be good at asking questions. And this has been the, the path I've gone down professionally.

[00:40:35] Jethro Jones: And um, and I have really strong feelings about this also because it is, learning is so personal to every individual spiritual, it is so spiritual as well. Even regular book learning is spiritual. So it your soapbox Yes. We're, we're transferring the soap box back and forth. I'll take it back in. Yeah. So.

[00:40:56] Jethro Jones: The, the reason why we're harping on this though is that this is how we have raised our children, that rather than saying to our children, these are the rules that you have to follow them, we have asked them to get their own guidance, revelation, inspiration from God about the things that they should be doing.

[00:41:15] Jethro Jones: And so, um, so, so we give them a lot of those opportunities, which to be honest, that's what everybody needs, is to learn how to listen to the spirit so they can make the choices that they need to make.

[00:41:29] Staci Jones: Yeah. And it's more than just like, you know, find your own rules or whatever. Yeah. It's like, I mean, if you think about how many different people are in the world, like nobody really has the same, no one's the same as you.

[00:41:43] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:41:44] Staci Jones: So why should what you learned from the scriptures be the mandate for other people?

[00:41:50] Jethro Jones: Exactly.

[00:41:52] Staci Jones: Um, I've sat in many, many Sunday school classes. One reason why I said I never wanna be a Sunday School teacher, teacher was because a, I hate Sunday school. Yeah. I've tried to avoid it at all costs. Many times I've tried

[00:42:04] Jethro Jones: for our whole marriage.

[00:42:05] Jethro Jones: You've hated Sunday School. Yes.

[00:42:06] Staci Jones: I hated Sunday school for a very long time because it was always somebody lecturing. And in many of the words that we've been in recently after Come Follow Me rollout. It has still been the same. There's not a lot of discussion. It is like, I'm going to dump all of my knowledge on you.

[00:42:23] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And then my, I just check out of it. And so I'm like, why am I even sitting here being bored outta my mind? Because many times it's like, you know, I'll raise my hand, share a thought, and someone's like, okay, thanks. But that's not what I'm looking for.

[00:42:37] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:42:37] Staci Jones: Which is like the worst thing ever. And so as teaching a Sunday school class for youth, like.

[00:42:44] Staci Jones: These kids are so brilliant and I see it when they share things. And what I don't wanna do is I don't wanna shut that part of 'em down.

[00:42:51] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:42:52] Staci Jones: And if to understand the key to under, I think one of the keys to understanding scriptures is understanding that your, this, your scripture reading is not the same as somebody else's scripture reading.

[00:43:01] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like, yes, it's the same book that you're reading from, but the insights that you gain because of who we are, sons and daughters of God, those insights are personalized for us. Mm-Hmm. There's general stuff that we all gain. Like Yeah. We all know the stormy story of Alma, the younger, like that's a general one.

[00:43:18] Staci Jones: But like the story of Alma, the younger's conversion may be really, really personal to somebody and it that really, really needed that. And they have a strong testimony about that versus somebody who is like, that's really cool that he changed his life. And that's a cool story. Mm-Hmm. And so you can't discredit those spiritual impressions that people read while studying the scriptures.

[00:43:42] Staci Jones: You cannot discredit the power that those may have on somebody else if they are allowed to share.

[00:43:49] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, and part of your frustration with, with you sharing things is that you would be vulnerable and share things that were personal to you, that were powerful to you. And the teacher would be like, oh, I was actually just looking for, how many days was Elma asleep?

[00:44:06] Jethro Jones: And you're like, well, who cares? That doesn't even matter.

[00:44:09] Staci Jones: Well, and it's not even, most of the time it's not even like a statistic like that. It's like, oh, well the teacher had in their mind the certain thing that they were looking for somebody to say, and that was not it. Mm-Hmm. It didn't matter if it was a great insight.

[00:44:23] Staci Jones: It was not what the teacher in their research and their preparation had come up with as an answer.

[00:44:29] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:44:30] Staci Jones: As the right answer. And so, because we're all different, there is no one right answer for everybody. Mm-Hmm. That's one of the greatest things in scriptures is it can give you the answers that you need for your life situations.

[00:44:44] Staci Jones: Yeah. For what you are in. And if we are creating an environment in especially youth study, school class, for these kids who are figuring things out in their lives. And also it would really be beneficial for adults too, let's face it. 'cause we're still figuring things out, but creating an environment that allows them to have the opportunity to share something that they learn deeply with the peers at their age.

[00:45:09] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. They don't need to hear from me because I'm like, how old? Like 25 years older than them. Yeah. 25 years older than them. I've been through a lot more in my life and where I'm in my life is not where they are, but if I can create an environment where they can share with each other and be the best teachers to each other, that's the beauty of the youth program today in the church also is having the youth.

[00:45:37] Staci Jones: Be the teachers, like the discussion leaders with each other.

[00:45:41] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:45:42] Staci Jones: Is allowing that to be the primary of teaching of each other. Like it's great as an adult having insights to facilitate these learning things and to share my spiritual impressions. But it shouldn't be as a way of, this is the only answer.

[00:45:57] Staci Jones: This is not the only answer for Elm the younger's conversion. Right. Like, what

[00:46:00] Jethro Jones: is your answer? Which, which is how it, it seemed to be portrayed to us when we were teenagers. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. That this is how you interpret this when the reality is if, if you're really like getting through the Book of Mormon every single year Mm-Hmm.

[00:46:16] Jethro Jones: However many years you've been reading it, you're gonna have that many different interpretations of what it was and why it mattered to you then as opposed to didn't matter to you another time. Mm-Hmm.

[00:46:27] Staci Jones: Yeah. So there's, there's something kind of cool about that, like when we reread the scripture so much, um.

[00:46:33] Staci Jones: I remember when I was young, when I turned eight, my parents got me when I was baptized. They got me scriptures like I got the quad. Those things are huge and still waste so much. Yeah. And I remember being told to like, you know, this is, the scriptures take really good care of it. Like, don't, you know, be careful what you write in the margins.

[00:46:51] Staci Jones: Be careful what you highlight because you need to keep these for a very, very long time. Mm-hmm. They're important to keep, you know, and as an adult I have probably like four or five copies of the Book of Mormon around my house that I've written in. And a lot of people like this may be just me, but a lot of people will like, take notes in their, like their quads or their really nice scriptures and go back and use 'em every single year and like reread those thoughts and stuff.

[00:47:22] Staci Jones: Um, I'll write notes in my scriptures. I use the wide margin ones, which are one of the greatest inventions recently that I absolutely love. I'll write 'em one and the next year I'll just buy a new set of scriptures. Wow. Because I have found that those insights that I recorded at that time, they don't make sense to me the next time I read it.

[00:47:43] Staci Jones: Um, I used to write like facts, like Joseph Smith was 33 years old at this point, you know, oh, I am 33 right now. You know, that doesn't make, like, yeah, I'll understand that the next year. But I use the wide margins as a journal. Like I'll be reading through and I'll just, like, the thoughts that come in will just pour out and I'll just write 'em in the margins.

[00:48:05] Staci Jones: And like, even I'll go back and read something I wrote last week and it didn't make sense, doesn't make sense to me really anymore. But at that moment that I was reading, that was something that came into my mind that I wrote it down and the act of writing it down for me is where I learned from it.

[00:48:20] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:48:20] Jethro Jones: And so I write

[00:48:21] Staci Jones: it down and then I, I keep reading and I read and it just builds inside me with that knowledge. And then I just buy new set of scriptures. Mm-Hmm. And start over again. And. It's those insights that come in that are just like, it's just building this stronger and stronger foundation.

[00:48:40] Staci Jones: Um, because I'm allowing those insights to come and I'm looking at 'em and analyzing them and recognizing that they're for me. And, you know, occasionally in my Sunday school class, I'll share a really cool insight, um, while I am, while I'm teaching something I thought was really, really cool or something that was impressed upon me that the kids could really benefit from hearing.

[00:49:01] Staci Jones: But most of the time, like what I learn, like I don't do a whole elaborate, I read the follow me lesson once through, after I read my scripture, the scripture block for that week. Mm-hmm. In preparation for my Sunday school lesson. And sometimes, sometimes I'll read it at the beginning of the week and then read the scriptures, and then I'll just write down things that come to my mind, oh, this would be cool if we did, if we did this in class.

[00:49:26] Staci Jones: Here's an idea. Here's an idea, here's a question that might be good to ask. I just write, I print out the sheet and then I just write it on the back. And then I, like Saturday night I go through, or Saturday morning, I just go through and be like, okay, I still feel, that's a good question. Or I don't know where that came from.

[00:49:43] Staci Jones: It just hit me at that moment. Mm-Hmm. And then it's like, that's the preparation I've prepared because I just want them to have good questions to cultivate a discussion. And sometimes it totally flops in Sunday school. Yeah. Because I can't control teenagers. Yeah. But sometimes it is abs. More often than not, it's absolutely amazing because these kids have their own insights to share.

[00:50:07] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:50:09] Jethro Jones: So, you know, I. There are a couple, there's one thing you said that made me think of two different things. Number one is your, you said sometimes you share an insight that you gained, but the reality is, is that the insight you gained means nothing to other people. Mm-Hmm. And this goes for everybody.

[00:50:29] Jethro Jones: Like we share insights in, in sacrament talks and, and conference talks and things like that. And the reality is, is that the insights you receive, the revelation you receive is for you and makes sense to you. And most of the time nobody else cares. There may be a good story, there may be a good experience, there may be a very obvious lesson.

[00:50:51] Jethro Jones: Nobody notices or cares about that nearly as much as when they receive their own witness. Mm-Hmm. From Heavenly Father through the Holy Ghost about the truth of something. And so that's the first thing, is your experiences don't matter to anybody else. The second thing is that when you ask good questions, you give the participants, your students the opportunity to have those same insights themselves.

[00:51:22] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And so even if they don't ever answer, like somebody could be totally silent in your class and never give a response and could have a very spiritual experience because they are thinking about the good questions that you asked, and they are pondering and the spirit is still working on them, even if they don't speak.

[00:51:39] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. But as it says in scriptures, and as Elder Bednar talks about a lot that we need to act and not be acted upon, and when we take action by participating in Sunday school or by doing our own learning, then that's when the spirit is invited in by us taking action. And so if you're just sitting there passively letting.

[00:52:00] Jethro Jones: The teacher just fill your head with information. One, you're not gonna remember any of that. Two, you're probably not gonna fill the spirit. And three, you're gonna walk away thinking, what did I just, what was, why did I do that? That was not very worthwhile. And so when it comes to like general conference for example, that's what the majority of people are probably doing, is letting that information come and not taking action with the information that they're getting, which is essential to furthering your testimony, deepening your understanding of the gospel and building your relationship with Jesus Christ.

[00:52:35] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:52:36] Staci Jones: And I think going back to Elder Benner's quote about being acted upon versus action, um, it's really easy when you're called to be a teacher of a class to take away the opportunity for people to act in your class.

[00:52:51] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:52:51] Staci Jones: And I think that's what we really get caught up in sometimes in teaching in the church is we don't allow acting enough by our.

[00:53:01] Staci Jones: The people in our class, and it's, and when you're dumping knowledge on them, like you're taking away their opportunities to raise their hand and discuss.

[00:53:10] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[00:53:11] Staci Jones: And I think that's a, I think that's a really big issue that we still struggle with. Even with the K Follow Me program being five years into it.

[00:53:21] Staci Jones: Like there's parts of that as the, you know, the Sunday school, it's all aligned across young women's, young men's, all of the auxiliaries are all aligned across on what we're teaching. So you're getting this, like, half of my kids in my, my class are in seminary during the week. So they're getting in seminary, they're getting it at home, and then they're getting it in Sunday school

[00:53:43] Jethro Jones: and in their own personal study.

[00:53:44] Staci Jones: And their personal study. So I'm Sunday school, it's a tail end. Like they've had this all week. Mm-Hmm. And so to do the old way of just dumping and walking through the lesson. Takes away any opportunity that these kids have to act on what they've learned. They're just, it's just being acted. Them being acted upon.

[00:54:04] Staci Jones: And another aspect of that is we never go over what we read. Like we don't ever read through the scriptures In my class, we will read scriptures, but we don't read through and walk through the chapters. Because I believe that all of my kids, I'm of the belief that they've all read their scriptures that week, whether they have or not.

[00:54:27] Staci Jones: I believe I'm believing in them that they've acted upon that. And so I hold them to that standard of having read their scriptures, coming to class, ready to discuss what they've read.

[00:54:39] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:54:40] Staci Jones: And when I do that, it allows them to discuss them to know that they should come prepared. 'cause I'm gonna ask 'em questions.

[00:54:48] Staci Jones: And also allowing for the opportunity for the spirit. To prompt them to share things that they've read, because there's time. We don't, I don't talk a lot in my Sunday school class. I actually really hate public speaking. Mm-Hmm.

[00:55:02] Jethro Jones: And you sure do.

[00:55:03] Staci Jones: I do not wanna get on this podcast, but jets are convinced me.

[00:55:06] Staci Jones: Um, but I hate it. I don't like doing, I don't like standing in front of a class. That's another reason why I never wanted to be a Sunday school teacher. Um, but the less I can talk, like I think the better it is. Yes. And not just from the aspect of Yeah. For the class as a whole, but for me personally, not to have anxiety speaking in front of the class for 40 minutes.

[00:55:29] Staci Jones: Yeah. And so, like, having people holding 'em accountable for what they're supposed to have done and having good questions and just letting them discuss and share with each other really allows the spirit to. To touch the hearts of the kids. In my Sunday school class, we've got, um, we have our English speakers, and then we have a branch attached to our ward that we support that has, um, I don't know how many different languages those kids speak.

[00:55:58] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like, I, I just don't even know. Three or four sometimes some of 'em just, they're refugees, so they come and they don't speak English. And so there's, there's just not a way for me to be able to, I only speak a little bit of Spanish. I don't speak Mm-Hmm. French or any of these other language that these kids come speaking

[00:56:17] Jethro Jones: or Swahili or SW or Kandan or anything.

[00:56:19] Jethro Jones: sw

[00:56:19] Staci Jones: Yeah. Like I don't speak any of those. I try learning Swahili once and for like a month I tried and it just, I'm not good with languages either. Yeah. And so how, and I had to come to terms with it when I was called to this calling, how am I gonna reach both the English speakers and the kids who don't speak English without lecturing the whole time?

[00:56:40] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Because. I just didn't know how. 'cause if I'm gonna talk in English and French Kandan or whatever and translate, that involves me speaking in multiple languages, which fills essentially a whole entire class period with like one paragraph.

[00:56:56] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[00:56:57] Staci Jones: And so what I decided was, you know, I'm just gonna have to rely on the spirit and creating a classroom environment that allows the spirit, the maximum opportunities to be there.

[00:57:10] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And sometimes I don't do a very good job of that. I am definitely not perfect. I'm still learning. But like, that's the thing, my goal, that's my focus every week is what can I do in my preparation? What can I bring in that allows the spirit maximum time

[00:57:27] Jethro Jones: in the class? Yeah. And I think this is really important because if you just are focusing on dispensing knowledge and information, then that's, that's n.

[00:57:38] Jethro Jones: That's just gonna be more difficult when more languages come in. If instead your focus is to have people read scriptures and take action on what they read, then it actually becomes a lot easier to do that. And you know, you were talking about the different ways to teach and I'm the Sunday school president.

[00:57:59] Jethro Jones: Uh, I think this is my fifth time being the Sunday school president. It's like the calling I, I always end up with. And, um, and it's 'cause you're good at it. Well, it, obviously I have something to learn, so, but I am good at it because I, I know how to teach well and I know how to teach effectively. And so that is why I, I think that I'm there all the time.

[00:58:25] Jethro Jones: He's just listening. Oh, you can stay in and listen. Tensing. Um, so I, one of the things that I say all the time to teachers is you should ask. Questions more than you give comments. So rather than like saying, this is what happened, you should ask about what happened, you should ask what people's perspective of it is.

[00:58:48] Jethro Jones: You should be asking all these questions and not spending any time expounding anything that you've learned. Mm-Hmm. Just, just be asking questions. And if you're asking questions all the time, then you give people an opportunity to do something. The other thing I say all the time in the teaching and the Savior's way, uh, teacher council meetings that we do is, uh, is that the time you are talking should be way less than the time your class is talking.

[00:59:17] Jethro Jones: And really, like if you, if you ask one question at the beginning and, and this is what, um, and our ward brother Matthews is doing really well in his adult Sunday school class. He'll pretty much ask a question and won't have to say anything else the rest of the time, except just like poking

[00:59:40] Jethro Jones: somebody's getting some ice, he'll, he'll just ask a question and then let everybody else talk and give their perspective. And then, um, he'll just poke little things in there occasionally. Mm-Hmm. To say, what about this? What about that? And, and it's really a thing of beauty because it allows people to go as deep as they're comfortable going.

[01:00:02] Jethro Jones: Which, bringing it back to what you're talking about is that some of those, some of those youth have not read the scriptures, but you're not asking questions that are dependent on them reading the scriptures. You're asking questions that are dependent on them exercising faith in Jesus Christ. Mm-Hmm. And that is the huge difference because the other thing that you hinted at a few minutes ago was this idea that.

[01:00:26] Jethro Jones: There's a right answer and that there's, there's a way that you need to think about this, and you basically have to guess what the teacher's saying. Mm-Hmm. And the questions that you're asking are really about what's your experience with this? How has the Lord taught you this? How have you experienced this in your personal revelation?

[01:00:46] Jethro Jones: And so if somebody doesn't read the scriptures that week, then they're not left out in feeling like an idiot because you're not saying, how many days was Alma asleep? Because that's not the key point in the story. So a question that's much better there is like, what does this teach you about conversion?

[01:01:06] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And, and so then a kid who wasn't there and or didn't read the scriptures, they can now give their experience on that and share something that is meaningful to them. Which is so much more valuable than just knowing specific facts, dates, all the historical stuff that makes somebody a historical scriptor.

[01:01:27] Staci Jones: Yeah. And you know, asking questions like that for those kids who, you know, struggle reading their scriptures or don't like it and haven't read their scriptures. Having a questions like that I think motivates people to want to read their scriptures.

[01:01:42] Jethro Jones: Yeah. They're like, there's something cool in there. Yeah.

[01:01:44] Jethro Jones: If that's what happened, I didn't know that's what happened in the scriptures. Yeah.

[01:01:47] Staci Jones: I mean, sometimes I'll bring, like, if it's some crazy cool story, I'd be like, did you guys read about the guy who got stabbed who was so fat that his, the sword disappeared into the fact guy? Like, I got a bunch of teenage boys in there.

[01:01:58] Staci Jones: So they find that hilarious. Yeah. Like, I'll bring up like facts like that, but really like leaving it available for discussion. And it's not a fact-based discussion in Sunday school allows the kids to be like, maybe I do wanna learn. Mm-Hmm. Maybe I, I think it allows the spirit to work on their hearts. To encourage them to read their scriptures, especially if they're hearing their peers say, well, I thought it sounded like this to me, or it sounded like this to me.

[01:02:25] Staci Jones: They're like, oh, it's not just a one answer thing. Yeah. It's not, you know, maybe, maybe someone has told them this is what this story is about, but when they hear their peers saying, this is what I got out of it and this is what I got out of it, they're like, maybe there's something in it for me.

[01:02:39] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:02:39] Staci Jones: 'cause I think sometimes if, how it used to be when I was younger, at least when it's like, this is the scriptures, this, this, this, this, this. I thought, what was the point in reading the scriptures? You already told me.

[01:02:52] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:02:52] Staci Jones: What was in it? Like that's a pretty

[01:02:53] Jethro Jones: point.

[01:02:54] Staci Jones: I said in Sunday school, you tell me, I sit in young women's, you tell me, I sit at home and you tell me what's in it.

[01:02:59] Staci Jones: I never could understand. Like, that's one of the things I did not read my scriptures very much as a kid.

[01:03:04] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:03:04] Staci Jones: I think the first time I, I don't think I read them all the way through when I was in seminary. I think the, the first time I really remember them reading them all the way through was in my thirties.

[01:03:16] Staci Jones: And because I felt like everybody told me what was in them, what was the point? If they're telling me this is what it is. Mm-Hmm. Like, why do I need, like why read a book when you've already seen the movie? And it pretty much does the whole plot, you know? Yeah. You just gave me the condensed short version.

[01:03:30] Staci Jones: Why do I need to do that?

[01:03:32] Jethro Jones: Yeah. I that's a really good point that, um, that I don't think we, we talk about enough that that's what seminary and Sunday School was for us, I believe, growing up. Mm-Hmm. And, and it just was there. You're right, there was no point because like, it is just regurgitation of what happened and maybe there's a little more, you know, information and a little more wrinkles in there, but that's essentially how it felt.

[01:04:02] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Every single time. And for me as a teenager, the, the spiritual experiences that I had, where was I were when I was involved in doing something that was. Uh, me taking action and doing something. It was, it was not when I was just sitting there listening to something, it was when I was actually involved doing something out, typically outside, you know, youth conference, uh, camping, things like that.

[01:04:29] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. That's where the majority of my spiritual experiences came from, because church was not a place to, to have an experience with the spirit. Mm-Hmm. As crazy as that sounds, but that is like 100% what your classroom is.

[01:04:45] Staci Jones: Well, yeah. 'cause I think about, if you think about a story of Justice Smith, like he went against what everybody essentially telling him.

[01:04:52] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. In all the churches.

[01:04:54] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:04:55] Staci Jones: And so, I, I don't really remember very much spiritual experiences from when I was a kid because I did all the check boxes. Mm-Hmm. Go to church, go to, you know, to baptisms for the dead do dot, dot, dot. There was one experience that as you were talking, it brought, it came to my mind, it's used to call it Academy for Girls.

[01:05:14] Staci Jones: It was like 12 to 14. Um, it was like the pre, like they had EFY and then they had Academy for Girls and it was just like, and I think they had something for boys, but I didn't have any brothers, so I have no idea. But I remember going to that one year and we took a field trip 'cause I lived in Oklahoma.

[01:05:31] Staci Jones: It was at, um, university of Kansas. And so we took a, like our field trip, we spent a whole day and we went to Adam Mond. We got on a bus and we went over there and um, you know, I made good decisions as a kid. I was doing everything that was on the checklist. And I remember sitting in Adam Oman and praying, which was kind of like.

[01:06:00] Staci Jones: Weird. Like not usually, you know, they, the leaders are like, okay, just, you know, go over there and like listen, like write in your journal. And I was like, well what if I prayed? Like, and I prayed and it was just a really powerful experience. I just don't feel like sharing on here. But like you speaking about powerful experiences, remind me that was one that I had as a youth and I've never forgotten that experience.

[01:06:23] Staci Jones: But then I went back to doing checklist things.

[01:06:25] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:06:27] Staci Jones: And as I've gotten older and like I've had discoveries myself, I realize that, you know, the whole seeking personal relation is the best way to learn by the spirit. Yeah. It's not, and with the transition out of Come Follow Me and the youth program switching out of like the books, I think it's changed like five times since I was a youth.

[01:06:49] Staci Jones: It's great now. Um, but putting it in our hands really allows, it's. What Joseph Smith did, he took it into his own hands and asked questions that were on his heart. Yeah. And that's what we want these kids to do. And these adults in Sunday school or any learning environment, it's what we want to do is ask questions that are on your heart and the spirit will answer them through reading your scriptures, you know, through doing other things.

[01:07:16] Staci Jones: Attending church, it can be answered through people's sharing a spiritual experience that may be one person, it's the one that one person needs.

[01:07:23] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:07:24] Staci Jones: You know?

[01:07:26] Jethro Jones: Well, and, and that's part of what this whole project is that we're doing, is to give people an opportunity to experience that for themselves. So the journaling that we do, um, in the community at a decade, never to be forgotten.com, that the whole point there is for you to go and take action every single day.

[01:07:47] Jethro Jones: And, and write some thoughts down. Mm-Hmm. And then next year respond to the same question on the same day and see how you have grown over that time and over the next 10 years. That's gonna be a really cool thing for people to have. And, and it's gonna be, you're gonna love it and you're gonna be really grateful that you have it.

[01:08:08] Jethro Jones: Um, and we are working on a physical book for people to do that with. But the thing is, is like we can share some powerful stories here, and we are, and that's great. Uh, but really it matters how people respond and what they do because of it. And so are they going to have a deeper conversation with someone about a topic that they wouldn't have had otherwise?

[01:08:31] Jethro Jones: If so, then that's worthwhile. And you know, I, I think as we, as we talk about this idea of what, what learning for yourself in the gospel looks like. We just have to keep coming back to this idea that it is really about personal revelation. What is the one checklist Mm-Hmm. Item that we have to do like all of our kids.

[01:08:55] Jethro Jones: And you and I got baptized when we were eight years old. And so the first four principles of the gospel are faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. And like we got all that done when we were eight years old. And so like what do you do now for the rest of your life? Well, it's the endure to the end.

[01:09:20] Jethro Jones: It is have faith in Jesus Christ and seek to receive personal revelation from the Holy Ghost for the rest of your life. And if you can do that, then that's what's gonna get you back to heaven with Heavenly Father at the end of. At the end of this life, it is not going to be that you got your, uh, personal master Scriptor degree.

[01:09:44] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Master scriptor that you memorize all the scripture mastery or doctoral mastery as it's called now. It's not gonna be that you got, were an eel scout or any of those things. The checklist items, they, they just don't matter. The one checklist item that we have said over and over to our kids is receive personal revelation.

[01:10:03] Jethro Jones: Figure out how to do that for yourself. And, and without that, I think this life can be really hard, but with that, I think this life can be really joyous.

[01:10:13] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I think that's true because I mean, I know it's true because if you're not seeking personal relation for yourself, you're not asking the Lord what he wants you to do with your life.

[01:10:25] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. If you're relying on other people to give you the answers, you're, they're giving you their answers, not your answers. Yep. And. There's greater joy to be found. So much greater joy to be found when we're doing what the Lord asks us to do. Yeah. And if we're never asking him what he wants, we're never gonna be doing what he wants us to do.

[01:10:46] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:10:47] Staci Jones: And it's really easy to be like, well that's a really good answer that somebody else gave me. That's an easy way to do it. Like I can be happy that way. Um, and one thing that I've learned the last couple years especially, is despite trials asking the Lord what he wants you to do, fills you with joy despite anything else that's going on.

[01:11:10] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:11:11] Jethro Jones: And

[01:11:12] Staci Jones: like, it's amazing. Yeah. Like, that's the amazing thing. If you look at, if you looked at all the facts of our life currently. It's not very joyful. Like really if you look at it from that perspective, you're like, how can you be happy if this is that situation you're dealing with or that or that, or there's that unknown and that unknown and that unknown.

[01:11:36] Staci Jones: Yeah. Like how does that make you happy? Because what the world teaches brings you happiness and joy. Like a lot of times we judge situations by that.

[01:11:46] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:11:47] Staci Jones: But when we're listening to the Lord and we're asking him what he wants, like with sincerely asking him and then following through on what he says, whether it's do this or wait.

[01:11:59] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like that's where the joy comes from. Yeah. And it's, it's absolutely amazing. Like I would not have thought that with all the effort I put into perfection. Yeah. And doing a perfect life and having all the check boxes checked that I thought would be perfect life. That doesn't, didn't bring me any joy.

[01:12:19] Staci Jones: I'm much happier and more, I feel so much more joy and peace now as I spend the time listening to whatever the spirit tells me to do.

[01:12:26] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. It and it, it is so true, so real. And it, it makes a world of difference when that's your perspective. So I think we need to get into our trials, um, but we need to go back a little bit.

[01:12:46] Jethro Jones: Uh, about 10 years ago we moved to Alaska. Mm-Hmm. And I'm pretty sure that was about the time someone gave a talk in general conference about trials. And you and I had this crazy idea that we should pray for trials in our life. President Lawrence,

[01:13:03] Staci Jones: who said, um, was it President Lawrence?

[01:13:06] Jethro Jones: Well, he gave the talk What?

[01:13:07] Jethro Jones: Lack yet? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. 'cause

[01:13:09] Staci Jones: he's the one who said, you asked the Lord, what are you lacking? And listen. And that's the one that catapulted us.

[01:13:18] Jethro Jones: Yep.

[01:13:19] Staci Jones: And we were stagnant where we were in Utah spiritually, not financially,

[01:13:25] Jethro Jones: no,

[01:13:26] Staci Jones: but stagnant in a lot of ways that there was that talk by President Lawrence of what lack I yet that has probably been the talk.

[01:13:34] Staci Jones: That is the reason I keep praying for trials.

[01:13:39] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, and, and for a little bit of context, part of this question of, of where, where are we from, um, is President Lawrence was my mission president when I served in Russia. And uh, he gave this talk what Ette in 2015. So I guess that was a little bit,

[01:13:59] Staci Jones: yeah.

[01:14:00] Staci Jones: What, I don't remember what it was before then. Okay. There was something,

[01:14:03] Jethro Jones: there was another talk that somebody gave, I don't remember what it was, but they basically said like, you need to ask, you need pray for trials. And you and I were like, okay, let's do it. So and so we what? Crazy late night. I, I know.

[01:14:15] Jethro Jones: Yep. And then we felt followed through on it. That's the even crazier part. Um, so, so we moved to Alaska and uh, and that was a leap of faith. A a difficult thing to do. Um, very challenging in a lot of different ways. Incredibly awesome in other ways. And, um, and, and I don't want to talk about all of that really.

[01:14:40] Jethro Jones: 'cause uh, I, I want to get to our trial conversation. If you wanna say anything, you can interrupt anytime. But, um, but I think that the, the, the biggest trial. And the one that I definitely wanna talk about happened in 2019 mm-Hmm. And, uh, this was, was so difficult and, um, and put me in the deepest depression that I've ever been in and just made life exceptionally difficult.

[01:15:10] Jethro Jones: And the thing that's so amazing is I know exactly why it was so difficult and, and it was because I lost my identity as a son of God and saw myself as something different. And I saw myself as a, an amazing school principal, which I was, who was doing amazing things, receiving national attention, which I was.

[01:15:34] Jethro Jones: Yep. And, uh, and that was really cool. And, and during that time, I forgot who I was, that I was a son of God who had committed to. Honor his name and follow his principles. And I was, I was still doing that. Like, it, it's not like I was being Mm-Hmm. A, a bad human being, but my identity was tied up in that rather than seeing myself as a son of God.

[01:16:01] Jethro Jones: And what's crazy is that I had just finished being a bishop two years before that, uh, in Kodiak. Mm-Hmm. And so like, I had, like, everything was looking really good, right? And, and so

[01:16:17] Staci Jones: On paper.

[01:16:18] Jethro Jones: Yeah. On paper. And, and obviously there was something that wasn't, wasn't right. And uh, and again, I wasn't doing anything sinful or, or evil.

[01:16:30] Jethro Jones: Um, in fact I was doing a lot of really amazing, awesome things. And, um, I was Sunday school president, uh, in, in Alaska. And then I got called to be a seminary teacher, uh, shortly after that. And, um. So the, the thing that, that, that was so difficult was that Katya had had hip surgery earlier that year. And, and what's crazy is that you went with her to her hip surgery and had you, had I gone with her to her hip surgery, like I thought was originally going to happen, then I don't think any of this would've ever happened, which is, is just crazy.

[01:17:17] Jethro Jones: Um, because I would've been gone when things were brewing. But what ended up happening was that I got pushed outta my school about six weeks before the school year ended, and I tied my identity up in being a principal rather than a son of God. And so having that position taken away was. Exceptionally difficult.

[01:17:37] Jethro Jones: And, um, and I went, uh, fishing in the summer with some guys from our ward. And while we were out fishing, I kept wanting to, to fall into the, uh, river, not so that I would die. 'cause I didn't want to die. Mm-Hmm. But because I just wanted to go home, I was so depressed. I just wanted to crawl up in a ball and stay in my bed and not talk to anybody, or be around anyone.

[01:18:02] Jethro Jones: And, and the thing that brought me out of it was one night while I was on that fishing trip, um, I was, I was crying and praying and I, I just, I said, this is too hard for me. I can't take it anymore. And I need the atonement of Christ to act in my life and I need you to take this burden off of me. And I felt that burden being lifted immediately.

[01:18:32] Jethro Jones: And it was like the Lord was saying, even though I didn't hear a voice, it was like he was saying, here is what it feels like to put your burden on the Lord and to not carry it yourself. Mm-Hmm. Now it doesn't work where I just take it away from you Jethro. You still have to, you still have to live with this.

[01:18:54] Jethro Jones: So I'm gonna put it back on, but I will take it off anytime it gets heavy.

[01:18:58] Staci Jones: Well, and it's like him not just taking it off, but it's him carrying it with you.

[01:19:03] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:19:03] Staci Jones: Like you were trying to carry it all by yourself.

[01:19:05] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:19:07] Staci Jones: We'll go back to my experience with that exact same thing.

[01:19:09] Jethro Jones: Okay. So let me finish this, then we'll go back to yours.

[01:19:12] Jethro Jones: Yes. So I. I said, okay, now I feel what it's like to not carry that all by myself. And, and I know that you will take this completely off my shoulders, but you're gonna carry it with me now. And, and I can rely on you. I still have to have the growth and the experience that comes from it. And there were a lot of other things that made that really difficult.

[01:19:35] Jethro Jones: And it's not like it was fixed immediately, but there was, um, there was peace, there was comfort, there was, uh, taking advantage of the atonement. And for me that was really difficult to go through. And, uh, up to that point, probably. The hardest thing that I ever went through that nobody can ever understand why that was so hard and that I can't even articulate why it was so hard, except that I lost my identity and put my identity as something else.

[01:20:15] Jethro Jones: And, and that is, is the big piece. Mm-Hmm. But you had a totally different experience. Mm-Hmm. Tell me about yours. Yeah.

[01:20:23] Staci Jones: Same result. Yeah. Um, mine happened oh, eight years before that. Mm-Hmm. Um, we were living in Utah. Mm-Hmm. Um, our youngest Eloise was born in 2011. And, um, my mom always came to help care, help us take care of our kids.

[01:20:38] Staci Jones: And so she was, she was our fourth, and so she was around. And then, um, my dad had, had, um, issues with his work. He lived in Oklahoma and, um, he, they were moving. Like I, that's where we went to high school at like Mm-Hmm. And he'd got a job with the church in Utah. We lived in Murray. And so.

[01:21:00] Jethro Jones: We lived in Sandy at that point.

[01:21:01] Jethro Jones: Sandy.

[01:21:01] Staci Jones: Oh yeah, that's right. Thank you.

[01:21:03] Jethro Jones: Because they wanted to live with us.

[01:21:05] Staci Jones: Yes, they did. Because they, they had a house they needed to sell, which hadn't sold. And my mom was like helping us. And then she was gonna go back and then they're packing up their house and driving out and then they were gonna stay with us.

[01:21:16] Staci Jones: And so I just had this baby and my mom was there for, I dunno, two or three weeks.

[01:21:20] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:21:21] Staci Jones: It felt like

[01:21:22] Jethro Jones: an eternity.

[01:21:23] Staci Jones: And, you know, they went home and then they were coming back and then they moved in with us

[01:21:27] Jethro Jones: On Halloween.

[01:21:28] Staci Jones: On

[01:21:28] Jethro Jones: Halloween.

[01:21:29] Staci Jones: And so, and

[01:21:30] Jethro Jones: Eloise was born in September.

[01:21:32] Staci Jones: Yeah. So Eloise was almost six weeks old and my dad started his job with the church. They were living in our house. And, um, it was the day of Eloise, a six month week checkup, actually.

[01:21:45] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Or my appointment six week, I don't know, something, six week checkup. And my mom was gonna watch the other kids. Katya was in school. You know, Jeff would gone to work. It was the start of. It was like a big training day or whatever. I don't know. My dad was his new job and my mom died from heart attack.

[01:22:03] Staci Jones: Like my dad had seen her in the morning and then by the Jethro had left. And by the time I woke her up to take, to tell my mom I was, if she was good 'cause she wasn't feeling well, she had passed away. And um, my mom who had just done a checkup before she moved, everything was good. Mm-Hmm. You know, and coming up to this point, it was like, my parents are moving here.

[01:22:27] Staci Jones: They've never lived around my kids. Like I didn't have the best relationship with my mom. And I was looking forward to this opportunity, opportunity to, for her to get to know me as an adult with kids and to be involved in my kids' life. 'cause she loved all of her grandkids so much. Spoil them, loved them greatly, and like lived for them.

[01:22:49] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And so like, they lived with us and this all happened and. Like just a traumatic set of events for that day and me being the one to like have to tell my dad Mm-Hmm. That his wife of 30 plus years was dead. Yeah. Like, and just like, it, it really literally like rocked my world. I don't remember much from the next six months.

[01:23:18] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And that's six months of Eloise's life That I don't remember. I only remember it if I look at pictures. Like if you ask me memories, they're jogged by pictures, but nothing else. Like, I had four little kids, a brand new baby, a grieving dad living with us. Mm-Hmm. And I think, did you start your new job that year?

[01:23:39] Jethro Jones: Uh, no, I started Oh, did I? I think you had did because we started new jobs and we had kids. Yes. That was, yeah. We had, I started my new job and then we had Eloise. And then your mom passed away. The

[01:23:52] Staci Jones: parents moved in. Mom passed away. And so.

[01:23:55] Jethro Jones: So real quick about that six months.

[01:23:57] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:23:58] Jethro Jones: We don't even have that many pictures of that time either.

[01:24:00] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Like that. We just, we weren't taking pictures, we were just like,

[01:24:05] Staci Jones: it was like full on survival mode. Yeah. And I look back and I think, okay. The reason I had Eloise when I did is so that I would get up every morning because she had to be taken care of. Mm-Hmm. And luckily she was my fourth kid, so it was pretty routine on what I did.

[01:24:18] Staci Jones: You knew what you were doing. Yeah. Yeah. So it really was like autopilot and it was like, watching my dad mourn was really, really difficult. Mourning myself. I mean, I'm the middle of five girls and older sister married and a younger sister who had just gotten married who didn't have any kids yet. My older sister had two

[01:24:39] Jethro Jones: mm-Hmm.

[01:24:40] Staci Jones: And then my oldest sister wasn't married and my youngest sister wasn't married. And, um, my mom passed away in November, which is right before Thanksgiving, which is right before Christmas. And so. I took on the role of being the anchor probably for that Christmas for my family.

[01:25:01] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:25:02] Staci Jones: Like when my mom's college remain, invited us over for Thanksgiving.

[01:25:05] Staci Jones: She lived like 45 minutes away. That was really good. I don't really remember much of it though 'cause it was still such a fog. And then Christmas, I think we did it at our house

[01:25:15] Jethro Jones: probably. I can't

[01:25:16] Staci Jones: remember.

[01:25:16] Jethro Jones: Yeah,

[01:25:16] Staci Jones: I have some pictures. We blessed Eloise at Christmas. That's the only part of Christmas I probably remember.

[01:25:22] Staci Jones: 'cause that's a picture of Eloise. Mm-Hmm. Puking in a picture of my dad. It's the best picture ever that's in her cute little Christmas dress. Um, but I remember like taking on the weight of being the anchor for my family at that time. So taking care of little kids, helping my dad, trying to grieve for my mom, for all these unmet things, dreams that are essentially gone.

[01:25:48] Staci Jones: And just dealing with the trauma of being the one that found her after she passed away. Like it was autopilot, but it was so agonizing and so like just dark and heavy that I don't like, I don't remember anything except the pain of loss and not having the time essentially not even having the time to grieve because I was taking care of four little kids and my dad.

[01:26:15] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And us. Yeah. And just trying to and my siblings in their grief and holding it all together and being the one who had to tell people and had to find her like I just still am like that was a lot.

[01:26:30] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:26:31] Staci Jones: And then my dad, this is like crazy. Catapults it up to six months, but my dad started dating again.

[01:26:41] Staci Jones: Mm. He knew it was the right thing to do and so he started dating and he was living in our house at this time and it was just so funny 'cause. I wanted for my dad to be taken care of. Like I didn't want him to live with us forever. Yeah. He was still young enough. Like my mom was 62. My dad, I think 63 when my mom passed away.

[01:26:59] Staci Jones: So he's still young. I wanted him to have someone else.

[01:27:03] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:27:04] Staci Jones: And so he started dating and then like Valentine's Day, Jethro's grandpa passed away who lived in town. And so his mom came down for the funeral and it was Tenzing's birthday right before, and you know, Jethro's mom's there. My dad's there we're having a birthday party for Tenzing.

[01:27:27] Staci Jones: And like my Jethro's mom had been online dating for years. So my dad was just into it. So my dad's asking her questions and they wrote for Sunday dinner and then he asked her out on for Valentine's Day. Funny. Mm-Hmm. So funny. And so they started dating and they get engaged and then they're getting married and they get married.

[01:27:47] Staci Jones: Within six months after my mom passed away, I'm fine with this. Jethro's fine with it. We were good with it 'cause it meant good things for both of them. But it was still in that process of like so overwhelming with everything that was going on. And then we had a family reunion, Jethro's family reunion at Aspen Grove Memorial Day weekend.

[01:28:07] Staci Jones: So the parents got married earlier in May. We call 'em the parents because yeah. What else do you call them? It's easier that way. Parents, your mother-in-Law turned stepmom, but she's a great bonus mom. Yeah, so we just call 'em the, we just call 'em the parents. Yeah. So they got married and we were at Aspen Grove and like six, it'd been six months of, since my mom passed away, a lot had happened.

[01:28:27] Staci Jones: Our kids were getting older. I still felt so like, such a heavy weight like Jethro described earlier, like an unbearable weight that you just wanna run and hide from and you just wanna curl up in a ball. Mm-Hmm. Because it's just so heavy. And I remember, I don't remember where everybody was, everybody was doing things, but I was like up in the room that we were staying in.

[01:28:53] Staci Jones: And I remember kneeling down and praying so hard because it was so hard to still carry this weight. I felt like it was never gonna leave the sorrow and the loss was so, felt so strong and I felt like I just couldn't get, get through it. And I didn't even know how. And I felt like I was carrying everybody, but nobody was carrying me and I was carrying everything.

[01:29:20] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And I remember praying and just pouring out my heart to Heavenly Father and

[01:29:25] Staci Jones: I just, I don't even know how to describe it, but like I could just feel Jesus Christ lifting the weight off through the atonement. And I never really understood the atonement. Because I, I was a pretty good kid. I didn't make any huge things I need to repent of. Probably should have worked on something.

[01:29:42] Staci Jones: Yeah. But I didn't really understand it. 'cause I always thought it was one of those things that you only use it for repentance.

[01:29:48] Jethro Jones: Yeah. It's only for sinners. Yeah. Only for people to do really bad stuff.

[01:29:51] Staci Jones: Yeah. And so I remember just sitting there and I just felt like the atonement, AtWork, lifting that burden off of me.

[01:29:58] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:29:59] Staci Jones: It was the most amazing feeling I've ever felt in my life. And I've never forgotten it since. But, you know, you talked about how your identity was tied up in that, I mean, we talked about how having a kid with special needs kind of was a trial, but this was probably the really biggest trial.

[01:30:19] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:30:20] Staci Jones: Because I didn't, because it disrupted this perfect, seemingly perfect life that I'd lived up until I, how was like 27? I don't remember.

[01:30:30] Jethro Jones: Something like that.

[01:30:31] Staci Jones: Yeah. And so, um. Just having that was just, it was crazy. And then, you know, eight years later, and my, oh yeah, back to the identity, my identity was kind of tied up in that, like my mom was alive, you know, I had this whole thing planned out, how everything was gonna work out,

[01:30:53] Jethro Jones: and you were still very much a perfectionist, planning everything and like, this is what our life is gonna look like.

[01:30:58] Jethro Jones: And

[01:30:59] Staci Jones: yeah, the kids are gonna go to the grandparents on the weekends. We can go on dates with without little kids. And just that whole shift in everything, it really rocked everything that I ever thought of and, um, who I was as a person, because now I have a stepmom and my mom is gone in like six months.

[01:31:20] Jethro Jones: Yep, yep. And, um, and, and like my story, it's not like the atonement works where it just disappears. No. Uh. The, there's still things that need to happen. Mm-Hmm. And even several years later, like you were still Yeah. Um, you still needed support in going through that.

[01:31:42] Staci Jones: Yeah. I still really struggled with it.

[01:31:45] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. When we lived in Alaska even.

[01:31:47] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:31:48] Staci Jones: But because I felt that from the atonement of Jesus Christ that one time and really felt the burden lifted off, it kind of guided me to asking for help later to seeking answers to other questions. Are you gonna sneeze? I just

[01:32:07] Jethro Jones: about to, but

[01:32:08] Staci Jones: don't see.

[01:32:09] Jethro Jones: But I didn't, I was getting ready to hit those mute buttons real fast because you don't want that off.

[01:32:14] Jethro Jones: I saw your face,

[01:32:15] Staci Jones: but like, because I felt that once I knew I could feel it again.

[01:32:20] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:32:21] Staci Jones: And I knew where to turn to and I knew it was possible by turning to the Lord. In your darkest hour, he's there. You felt that eight years later

[01:32:33] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. In

[01:32:33] Staci Jones: your darkest hour where everything that you have built your life on Yeah.

[01:32:38] Staci Jones: Was kind of upended.

[01:32:41] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, and, and this is what I think is, is so amazing is that we, we had two very different experiences and yet the result was the same, which was you can rely on the atonement of Christ to take burdens from you and, and be able to manage it and, and continue on living. And could we have in some other situation, like figure it out another way to keep on living?

[01:33:09] Jethro Jones: Yeah. I'm sure we could have, but the healing and the, the moving forward and the growth and development came through the atonement and through understanding the, our connection with our Heavenly Father. So that, that piece is really. It is really powerful for us to be able to experience that. Mm-Hmm. And everybody can, that's the amazing thing.

[01:33:37] Jethro Jones: And so whatever trial somebody's going through, the atonement can work in that trial. And, and even if you think, well, it can't because this doesn't like, oh, well of course your mom dying. Like that's what the atonement is for, is for when people die. Or like, you're really sad about that, but like losing your job, eh, maybe not.

[01:33:58] Jethro Jones: Like what does God really care about that? Mm-Hmm. But he does because he cares about each one of us. And that's what the atonement is for, is for each one of those little things that are very big to us, but may seem little to other people.

[01:34:13] Staci Jones: And he cares about every facet of our lives.

[01:34:15] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:34:16] Staci Jones: Because someone losing their mom, like that might not have been as traumatic and as earth shattering as it was for me.

[01:34:23] Staci Jones: Losing your job, not as traumatic and earth shattering to some people.

[01:34:26] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:34:27] Staci Jones: But like. We all have those experiences in our life that just based on, you know, how we were created, the experiences we have, that certain experiences are more traumatic or more earth shattering than others. And that's how it's so personalized.

[01:34:47] Jethro Jones: It is. And, and so like speaking of death, my dad died a few years after your mom. I don't even remember what year my dad died. I love my dad, I miss him, but at the same time he's dead and I'm not like I'm gonna see him again. I'm sure of that.

[01:35:01] Staci Jones: I

[01:35:01] Jethro Jones: won't

[01:35:01] Staci Jones: tell your siblings that you forgot. Especially Amy. I think it was 2016.

[01:35:06] Jethro Jones: Well, I think it was too, but I, I can never remember. So I remember

[01:35:10] Staci Jones: us being on vacation when he passed away. Yeah. So it was probably waiting to get on a ferry to go home. Yes.

[01:35:14] Jethro Jones: So it was probably 2016. 'cause that's when we were getting back to Kodiak. So like, again, this is. We're just different. Mm-Hmm.

[01:35:23] Jethro Jones: Right. And the things that impact us are going to be different for each of us, which is why the atonement has to be personal and why Revelation has to be personal to us. Yeah. Because any other way, it just like, it doesn't make sense. We're not all going to react to the same things, uh, in the same way. So we need to be aware of that and prepared for that and, and cognizant of what that actually looks like

[01:35:49] Staci Jones: and taking that as that point.

[01:35:51] Staci Jones: And going back to the question you asked me in the beginning about my spiritual growth over the past years because I experienced and sought for the power of the atonement in my life, and remember what that feels like and remember that I can always go back to that, that has essentially changed my spiritual trajectory.

[01:36:08] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:36:09] Staci Jones: Yep. Because I've gained an understanding of what the Lord can do when we turn to him.

[01:36:17] Jethro Jones: Isn't that the point of the atonement to change your spiritual trajectory and align it more to the father's will?

[01:36:23] Staci Jones: Yeah.

[01:36:24] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:36:24] Staci Jones: It really is. And so if you can keep that in mind, then you really can overcome, do and become anything.

[01:36:33] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:36:35] Jethro Jones: Yeah. So should we talk about a trial that we're facing right now?

[01:36:39] Staci Jones: Yes.

[01:36:42] Jethro Jones: We can pause.

[01:36:43] Staci Jones: Let's pause

[01:36:43] Jethro Jones: for a second.

[01:36:45] Jethro Jones: All right, so let's talk about our current trial. Um, I think for this one, we need to go back to the beginning of this year. Well probably go back to 2019 where you left off with your experience. All right. So in 2019, so that was kind of a catapult for a lot of things. It was so, uh, went to a district level position instead, and.

[01:37:15] Jethro Jones: Um, and then knew that I was done being a principal after that and I was gonna go be a consultant. Um, so consultant, because you've been building Yeah. For years. Been building for years, so it wasn't just a split second decision. Yeah, it was, uh, when we moved to Fairbanks, actually, we had a long discussion about whether I would take a job in Fairbanks as a principal again or.

[01:37:43] Jethro Jones: Do the consulting full-time because that had already started. And, and so we had to decide to take a job or, or, uh, or do consulting. And so we knew after Fairbanks I was gonna do, go do consulting. Like that was, that was the plan. That was it. My plan, well, it was my plan. Um, that was my plan. I knew that was gonna be my last stop.

[01:38:07] Jethro Jones: So. Um, so I, I knew that I was gonna do consulting and, and so that's what, uh, what we decided that happened in 2019. Well, it was wasn't, I just don't think we decided as much as the Lord. Told us it's what we should do. Yes. That is a more accurate way to say that. Thank you. Since we're really gonna be open and honest about that.

[01:38:29] Staci Jones: Yeah. I mean I didn't want that. No, I wasn't really ready for it. 'cause I appreciated the stability. This is important. Yes. Is an important piece. I appreciate the financial stability, insurance, regular income. Mm-Hmm. All of that. That a job with the school district provided. Yeah. Even if it had its own issues.

[01:38:51] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Yep. And so, um, so me getting pulled out really was the first, was the big indication that, okay, maybe this isn't as stable, as stable as we thought it was. Um, because really, like you can just get moved outta your school. Mm-Hmm. Um, at somebody's discretion. And that was, that was really frustrating. So.

[01:39:18] Jethro Jones: I got moved to a district level position and um, and I knew that I was leaving at the end of the 20 19, 20 20 school year. And so I hadn't, uh, hadn't quite resigned yet, but that was already Mm-hmm. The plan. And, um, and so. We started putting things in motion to get our house ready to sell and, uh, move out of Fairbanks knowing Yeah.

[01:39:43] Jethro Jones: We needed that one last year. Of you working for the district in order to get everything. Yeah. Because if you have ever lived somewhere, that's not the easiest place to reach. We learned this in Kodiak, I think was, you've gotta have a kind of an exit plan Yeah. For certain locations. Mm-Hmm. Kodiak, you have to be able to get on the ferry.

[01:39:59] Staci Jones: Yep. Fairbanks, we had a house we needed to sell and if we were leaving Alaska. It's not like we're gonna be that close. Yeah. Yep. And so yeah, we had plans in place you could do another year as a district level. Mm-Hmm. And then we were just working and saving Mm-Hmm. Towards a goal. Yep. And, and so what's really crazy is that we had already decided we were gonna move when the pandemic hit.

[01:40:24] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And, uh, and this is another miracle that I think is, is worth sharing here. Um, we. We were looking for a place to live, and you had found a place that you thought looked promising, but you weren't like totally sold on it. And then it disappeared from Zillow. Mm-Hmm. And it saved it as a favorite in Zillow.

[01:40:48] Staci Jones: 'cause it looked pretty good. Yeah. It was big enough for our family. I mean, when you got six people Yeah. You've gotta have, and with Jethro working from home. I appreciate my own space also. Yes. Yes. So it was big enough for us to be able to fit our whole family in. If you've ever looked for a house for six people, it's kind of hard.

[01:41:06] Jethro Jones: Yeah, for sure. To rent. Yeah. With, uh, with the first, with the oldest one just going into freshman year at high school. Um, so the thing that's so amazing was that, uh, I was gonna go to a conference that got canceled by Covid and. Um, and that was gonna be like my, my first foray into, uh, consulting, like put myself out there and then Covid happened and that got canceled.

[01:41:34] Jethro Jones: But there was a woman who, uh, who worked for a company and, uh, as a salesperson who was just trying to like connect with people at this conference. And she messaged me and asked if we could meet. And I said, well, sure we can. But I'm kind of a Lang duck, so I'm not gonna be able to buy anything for the district.

[01:41:54] Jethro Jones: And she's like, okay, well let's meet anyway. Like it was covid. Uh, nobody else had anything else to do. Nobody had anything else to do. And so it was like, let's, let's meet. And um, and so we met and I told her that I was moving to Spokane. She's like, oh, really? I have a house in Spokane. I grew up there and I, I rent out my house now.

[01:42:14] Jethro Jones: And I was like, oh, really? Where's it at? And she told me the address and I looked it up and I was like. My wife has this house saved in Zi, in Zillow. Like we we're already looking at this, but it got taken off the market, so what's going on? And she's like, well, we just need to do some repairs, but it's gonna be back on in a little bit.

[01:42:30] Jethro Jones: And I was like, well, tell me when it's gonna be back on, because this looks like the right place. So the timing wise, we got the house. Uh. A, a month before we moved down. And so we paid, uh, that month's rent before we even lived there to make sure that we had it. And my sister, who lives in Spokane was able to, uh, like we could send Amazon packages there and she could go, like, put 'em in the house.

[01:42:58] Jethro Jones: And, um, and it was, it was so perfect. The price was right, wasn't too expensive, and it was, it was the right size for us in a good neighborhood and a good location. And it was just a miracle. It really was. There. There is no other way to explain it. Why would this random woman want to talk to a lame duck principal who was leaving the district and wasn't gonna be able to buy anything, and why would she take the time and all of this?

[01:43:30] Jethro Jones: And, and then it turns out that it was, it was she, she's the one we rented the house from. Yeah. Like how amazing is that? Yeah. Oh, it just, it blows my mind every time I think about it because the only explanation is that God knows us and he loves us, and that's it.

[01:43:51] Jethro Jones: What? You've got a long hair. I get off of you. Oh, I get it. Real problem. It's right there on your chin. Not but the hair of my chin, chin, chin. That is, that's one of yours. I know. That's, I I couldn't keep staring at it the whole next hour and a half or whatever. Okay, so, so I become a consultant. Uh, I think I'm gonna travel all over the country.

[01:44:12] Jethro Jones: I don't. And so, well, I mean, you. That was the plan before Covid. Before Covid, yeah. Yep. Covid happens, so I don't, so I'm like scrambling to do anything. All my quote unquote competitors who have been traveling all over the country are they now are jumping on the online. Training bandwagon that I had been doing for many years already in Alaska.

[01:44:37] Jethro Jones: 'cause that was the only way I could do it. And, and they're charging way less and cutting their prices significantly because they need to still work. 'cause this is what they do full time. So they've gotta figure things out. So they switch all their trainings to virtual and um, and really, uh, that means that they have more capacity to do things because they're not, um.

[01:45:02] Jethro Jones: They're not having to travel so they can, they can do more. And that made it really difficult for me to get a foot in the door. And so, uh, I, we did fine, uh, and survived and had money and that was great. Um, but I was constantly just trying to figure out how to, how to make this work after we moved down here, after we moved down here.

[01:45:27] Jethro Jones: Yep. You jumped like. Well, we got a house and then I, and then I jumped. So, you know, fast forward to, uh, 2023 and I, I think it's important to bring up, um, the superhuman father stuff that I joined, uh, because that was a really transformational thing for me and helped me figure out a lot of things about health and being a good dad and a good husband and all that.

[01:45:56] Jethro Jones: And, um, so I joined this group called Superhuman of Fathers. Uh, lost a ton of weight, got in a lot really good shape and made, um, a couple of really bad decisions, uh, during that time. Um, one of which was, uh, running a marathon at the end of 2023. And not telling Staci the running

[01:46:17] Staci Jones: a marathon is not a bad decision.

[01:46:19] Staci Jones: Yeah, but,

[01:46:20] Jethro Jones: but not telling Staci and the kids about it was, was the worst. And, um. What Staci said to me that, that just tore my heart out, but was true and I need to hear it was rather than having, uh, having us support you through this whole entire process, you didn't tell us until you were actually running the race and it, we couldn't share in any of that with you.

[01:46:49] Jethro Jones: And, and what I did. Like, when I tell people about this, they're like, what's the big deal? Like, it's not that big a deal, but here I am trying to be a, a good human being, a good husband, a good father, and I am, I'm not lying to my family, but I'm not telling them something big that's happening in my life and I'm keeping that from them.

[01:47:12] Jethro Jones: And how can I ever expect my wife to be one with me if I'm not sharing this important thing with her? '

[01:47:20] Staci Jones: cause you were sharing it like on Instagram. Like you weren't even running it in Spokane. You were running it on the East Coast, which is four hours ahead. Three hours ahead of our time.

[01:47:31] Jethro Jones: Three hours.

[01:47:31] Jethro Jones: Three hours.

[01:47:32] Staci Jones: And um, so I wake up and he's like

[01:47:37] Jethro Jones: on mile 12 and I'm calling you while I'm running a marathon

[01:47:40] Staci Jones: and not even telling me until like the end of the conversation. Yeah. But like, and I mean, we had just. He was over there 'cause you were traveling. Mm-Hmm. And we just got done a week on our anniversary trip.

[01:47:55] Staci Jones: Yeah.

[01:47:56] Jethro Jones: And I didn't say anything. He didn't

[01:47:58] Staci Jones: say a single thing to me, um, that he was gonna run a marathon.

[01:48:03] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:48:03] Staci Jones: And I'd run a marathon previously in 2014 before we moved. And it was, it's a big deal to run a marathon if you've never run one. Yeah. And support is like super important and. Cheering for someone in a marathon is also important.

[01:48:19] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And, and so Staci berated me in like the most kind, patient loving way possible. And any time that you have been mad at me or frustrated before paled in comparison to how you express yourself that time and it hurt and it still hurts and it's still. Embarrassing and like, I definitely need the atonement to help me overcome that still because it was, it was, it was really tough.

[01:48:54] Jethro Jones: And like anytime I think about it now, I still feel badly about it. Because, because of what it meant to you. So when I tell people, uh, the story, people are like, it's not that big a deal. But it goes so much deeper than just not telling. And it goes back to this idea of trust and love and like mental load and all this stuff that we've been talking about, um, that I basically just like spatting all your faces and, and that was messed up.

[01:49:28] Jethro Jones: And so, like this Superhuman Fathers group really helped me do some good things, but it helped me. Also realized that I still had a long way to go before I could be the man that, that I really wanted to be. And so, so what I've been focusing on this year is being one with you and not, uh, not doing my own thing.

[01:49:56] Jethro Jones: And I've come to you a lot more about things I've asked you for your advice and opinion a lot more. Um, because I think that that's, I. What I need to do for us to be one. So the second stupid thing that I did was that I, I had grown my hair out pretty long and, uh, and I shaved it again, not telling you and shaved short while I was

[01:50:21] Staci Jones: taking a nap.

[01:50:22] Staci Jones: While you were taking

[01:50:23] Jethro Jones: a nap. And, um, you know, that was, that was also another time where I was just thinking about myself, thinking about. What I wanted and not thinking about how it would affect the rest of my family. And man, those, those two things were, they, when you say 'em out loud, they're so silly.

[01:50:50] Jethro Jones: But when I think about what they symbolize and what they mean and, and that kind of stuff, they're, they are, it's really tough. And it's hard to talk about. I

[01:51:01] Staci Jones: think it goes back to the part we talked to earlier about being vulnerable. Mm-Hmm. Like being vulnerable with someone you really, really love. And there wasn't that communication.

[01:51:11] Jethro Jones: Yeah. There wasn't at that

[01:51:12] Staci Jones: point to be vulnerable enough to say, this is why I'm running a marathon, or I'm gonna run a marathon, or This is why I wanna cut my hair.

[01:51:22] Jethro Jones: Yeah.

[01:51:24] Staci Jones: And just that breakdown in communication had a really negative effect.

[01:51:29] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And so like, um, so like you still remembered that. And, uh, there was something that I said sometime this year where, uh, another thing that I did because of that Superhuman Fathers group is, um, is I got, I lost a bunch of weight, I got fit, I go to the gym every day.

[01:51:55] Jethro Jones: And, uh, I also write you notes Mm-Hmm. Every single day. And I've missed a couple here and there, but like today, well, it's not over yet. Today's not over yet. Um, but the, the thing is, is that writing you a note every day, telling you that I'm thankful for you and I love you, um, has not repaired the, the gaping hole that happened from that one.

[01:52:22] Jethro Jones: Those, each of those individually. That one incident of the marathon that shaved my head and, and you brought that up a few weeks ago where I said something to the effect of like, I've been doing a really good job this year and you brought up the marathon. And I was like, oh crap. It's, she's not over that yet.

[01:52:45] Jethro Jones: And, and that was another thing that was really, uh. Difficult to deal with because you know the things that you do really matter and people remember them and, and your actions say more than your words. And me writing a nice note every day doesn't make up for, uh, betraying your trust in a different way.

[01:53:12] Jethro Jones: And Yeah.

[01:53:13] Staci Jones: And I think the aspect of that that you left out was like you told other people that you were running a marathon, like your superhuman father friends, and that you were gonna cut your hair. Yeah. Like you told everybody before me. Yeah. And like, it's like a gut punch.

[01:53:29] Jethro Jones: Yeah. It's messed up. It's

[01:53:31] Staci Jones: messed up.

[01:53:32] Jethro Jones: Especially when I say things like, I want us to be one mm-Hmm. And then I go and tell other people and, um. So that, that's still hard for me to, to deal with and I still feel the pain from that as you do, obviously as well

[01:53:51] Staci Jones: sometimes, you know, and I think that, um, I don't know if you remember me telling this coat, but I think I've forgiven you for those.

[01:54:01] Staci Jones: But I don't know if you remember, I, I'm pretty sure I told you that. I don't know if you remember that. Um.

[01:54:07] Jethro Jones: So you said it. Mm-Hmm. But then you brought it up later.

[01:54:10] Staci Jones: No, I did it after I brought it up. 'cause I really had to do some soul searching about that.

[01:54:15] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm.

[01:54:16] Staci Jones: Because I mean, it's part of life. Mm-Hmm.

[01:54:21] Staci Jones: And I think,

[01:54:23] Staci Jones: I think that's like the other aspect of a play. The atonement. Yeah. I on the forgiveness side of it too, you know. Yeah. It's all those, once you feel it, once you use it later. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and the other part of that is that you, you may say that you forgive someone, but you may not be ready to part with that yet.

[01:54:45] Jethro Jones: Yeah. You know, and the question is, are you ready to part with it? Right. Are you ready to forgive yourself? Well, that's part of the thing that I'm struggling with is that, um, like, I feel like I have forgiven myself for doing that. But I can't go back and take it back. Mm-Hmm. You know, good thing your hair grew back.

[01:55:05] Jethro Jones: I know. Now I haven't cut my hair again since, I mean, I got it trimmed, but it's long again. And it's not that you cut your hair. No, it's not. That's the thing That's funny. And it's not that you run a marathon. 'cause I'm all for exercise. Yeah. And, and so this is where like we, we don't always understand the impact that our actions have on others.

[01:55:25] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And this is one of those times where I did not understand. How my actions would impact my family and especially my wife. And like the kids may not feel the same way about it that you do. And, and that's okay because they're different. That's totally supportive both ways. Like, oh, great haircut, dad.

[01:55:45] Staci Jones: Great. You ran a marathon. Yeah. Eloise was not supportive of the haircut though. Yeah. She like, and and she says, you cannot cut your hair. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, it's, it's not the. It's not the action, but it's the intent behind the action. And it's not the, um, the, the lack of doing something. It's, it's why you didn't do it and or how you went about it.

[01:56:11] Jethro Jones: And those things have an impact beyond just you. And you know, a lot of things in my life, I'm like, well, I can figure a way out of this. And those things. I couldn't figure a way out of, and it was just hurtful. And like you said, wasn't the action. It was that I told other people first and that I shared something with others before you.

[01:56:34] Jethro Jones: And that's something that other people don't understand when I relate this is that it's not about the haircut and it's about the lack of communication. It's about the, the mistrust, the the awkward situation that, that you put people in. Mm-Hmm. So, so I learned some good things. Well, and I think learning those lessons and we're still learning from those two experiences has really helped us with what we're going through this year.

[01:57:07] Jethro Jones: Yes. It's amazing how that works. I know we have trials that help us with the coming trials. Yep. So this year, at the beginning of the year, I had this really strong feeling that it was time for us to. Start looking to buy a house and I felt like we needed to, like that's what, what needed to happen and I felt really strongly like, we need to start doing this and to get serious about it.

[01:57:34] Jethro Jones: So contact a realtor, started looking at houses and uh, ended 2023 with having made a lot of money in my business and felt like the last two months. Three months. Yeah. Felt like we were on top of the world. And, and then things just really fizzled out and business stopped coming and things got really difficult.

[01:58:01] Jethro Jones: And by March fast Sunday, in March, uh, we fasted as a family about what, uh, we, what we needed to do. And, uh, you and I talked the Monday after and felt really strongly that I. I need to start applying for work. Anything you wanna add to that? I'm not sure if I wanna add this yet or not. Okay. I'll keep talking.

[01:58:27] Jethro Jones: Okay. Um, so in March, well, in March we said, okay, we're gonna start looking for work and like a full-time job, like a full-time job. And, and so I, I started applying for jobs and. I have applied for well over 50 jobs, um, trying to find something that works for me, jobs that I'm very qualified for, um, being a principal again, uh, going into industry, business

[01:59:03] Jethro Jones: and like I said, the kids are here and so they, there might be some crashing in the background as they, uh, make their lunch or whatever. So. Um, so I've applied for jobs. I've gotten a total of one interview from all of these jobs that I've applied for, and it wasn't even the job you applied for, and it wasn't even for a job that I applied for, which is really, really fascinating.

[01:59:29] Jethro Jones: So, one interview for, uh, for a job that they. They were actually posting three positions and they ended up only interviewing for one, and it was the one of the three that I said, I'm not interested in this one. And that was the one that I actually got the interview for. You were way too overqualified for?

[01:59:49] Jethro Jones: Yes. It was basically a principal intern position and I've been a principal for a decade, been coaching principals for eight years. And so it's like, what doesn't make a lot of sense, but I was ready to take a little bit of humble pie and, and do it, which there's been a lot of humility that I've had to do.

[02:00:10] Jethro Jones: Your volume is very loud. Oh, did I get too loud? Yes. Well, I'm, I'm getting fired up now, so I apologize. Scooch back a little bit. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Just volume down. So anyway, uh, so the trial right now is. The Lord said, look for work, and then hasn't just made work magically appear in front of me. So I'll interject right here.

[02:00:36] Staci Jones: Yeah, so the interesting is, like we talked about a little bit earlier, how we were on an anniversary trip. Mm-Hmm. On the East coast, and I don't think I've ever shared this with you. Oh, nice. Let's do it in public. But I remember on that anniversary trip we were, it was a bucket list trip for me. Mm-Hmm. We went to New England in the fall.

[02:00:56] Staci Jones: My favorite season's fall. We went to Acadia National Park on my bucket list, and work was going well. You had lots of gigs getting in money. I had the distinct impression, enjoy this because next year is gonna be hard and you're gonna rely on this experience and the things you felt. Hmm. And you just kept that to yourself and you just kept that to yourself.

[02:01:21] Jethro Jones: Okay. Okay. I did and I didn't. I remembered it a couple of times this year, but I've never really like, you know how when you think of something and you just don't know how to like put it really into words and let it out? Yes. Now this, yes I do. As a matter of fact, I do know how that feels. So anyway, I'm sharing that right now.

[02:01:43] Staci Jones: I'm glad you feel that too. I do. And I'm glad to hear that you had the spiritual premonition of things that were coming and then decided not to share it with me. Well, I didn't know what was coming.

[02:01:56] Staci Jones: But it was just the feeling that you're gonna need to rely on this relationship building that you've done on this trip because it's not gonna be easy. And then I just like totally chopped it down. And you ran a marathon the next week, and then you shaved your head a couple weeks later and you thought that was it.

[02:02:15] Jethro Jones: Little did you know. Well, I think kind in my back of my mind, there was more to it than that. Yeah. And so, I mean, as we're circling around and talking about this issue that this financial struggle that we've had this year, like it just reminded me that I kind of had an idea that this was coming. Mm-Hmm.

[02:02:38] Staci Jones: And going, you can even go back even further, when I was pregnant with Katya Mm-Hmm. I was a TLC junkie. Watched the baby story a million times, but still had the impression that something was wrong. But I never knew what Mm-Hmm. Like it's those little impressions. And I also had that impression. Mm-Hmm. And we did not talk to each other about that and tell each other that we had that impression.

[02:03:01] Staci Jones: I probably should have told you this one a little bit earlier than November. Yep. That would've been good. That's okay. But, but I mean, we talk about, we've talked a lot about seeking personal relation and spiritual growth. This episode. Mm-Hmm. And like this trial stinks. It's hard. Mm-Hmm. It's not easy, but in a way, the Lord prepared me for it a little bit.

[02:03:29] Staci Jones: Now that I remember. Sometimes we forget. Yeah. The impressions that we have, we do. Yeah. But the impression was there. And other things have prepared you for this. Like your experience 2019 has prepared you to understand the atonement, to lean on it. My experience 2011, done the same thing. So as we've been going through this trial, um, you know, even with you doing the marathon and cutting your hair, that relationship struggle.

[02:03:59] Staci Jones: Has made it. So we focus more on communication. Mm-Hmm. And as we've been going through this trial this year, like we have been huge on communication. Mm-Hmm. We have had to be like budget, communication, all sorts of communication. Um, and because of those trials, like we are ready for this one, we've been prepared through other trials to be able to grow in this one.

[02:04:28] Jethro Jones: Well, and that's one of the things that we talked about with Courtney last month on this show was how she was prepared for the trials that she was facing. And I definitely feel like that's the case here as well, that um, I'm not angry with the Lord that I haven't found a job. I am not stressed about money, even though I have every right to be because.

[02:04:52] Jethro Jones: The math just does not work. And yet somehow, and this is where a real miracle has happened every month, we have had enough to meet our commitments and we haven't had to ask for a handout or ask for help from other people. Um, we've been able to make ends meet that what I believe the Lord is just putting things.

[02:05:16] Jethro Jones: In front of us, uh, as, as, as we need them. And I think that that is really, it's so faith promoting and so like just a testimony that the atonement is real, that God knows us and he does want to take care of us. And he will. And like with how little money I've made this year, it, it doesn't even seem possible that we can.

[02:05:45] Jethro Jones: Not be in tons of debt. Mm-Hmm. And, and our credit card bill was high at one point this year and we've, we found money to be able to pay it off and, you know, it's just, it, it's really, really amazing. Mm-Hmm. It really is. And I mean, I look back on the last. Been 20 years since I've known you, since we've been married, and I look at how

[02:06:17] Staci Jones: the ice maker kids, I look at how experiences in our life, good and bad, have prepared us to be where we are. But I think a key component is you have to be willing to let the Lord lead you. Mm-Hmm. You have to be willing to see his hand guiding you to where you want to be. It's like the broader part of personal revelation.

[02:06:46] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like, where does the Lord want me to be? This is where I wanna be, but where does he want me to be? And we've talked about that multiple times this year, how Waiting on patience and waiting on the Lord as he guides us to where he wants us to be. Mm-hmm. 'cause that's all we can do. To be honest, that's what it really comes down to.

[02:07:08] Jethro Jones: So like right now, I don't know where I'm gonna end up as far as work goes. I don't know if my business is gonna turn around again and I'm gonna have more opportunity. Or, or start. Or start. No, I, I was successful. I was, but when we left Alaska. We had huge dreams of where it was going. Yeah. And none of it has played out how we thought.

[02:07:30] Staci Jones: Oh no, definitely not. And, and like, so, so there are multiple aspects of this where I am really struggling. One of them is thinking about what could be and how I'm defining success. And um, you know, I was like. Being able to afford being able to buy a house, for example, like we're not there. I thought within five years we would definitely be there.

[02:08:00] Jethro Jones: And that's not, doesn't look like it's going to happen. We're four and a half years in and America's happen. They do happen and, and like we've said many times, a miracle is the only way to describe. Is the only way to explain what, what could happen for us to be able to own a home again? Mm-Hmm. Um, at, at least in the near future.

[02:08:22] Jethro Jones: Um, even getting a job. All these jobs that I've applied for, for which I've been qualified and I haven't gotten anything, and I've hired a resume, coaches an interview, not even an interview, not even a call, like nothing. It's just been crickets. And I'm like, why is the Lord telling me to go look for a job when?

[02:08:41] Jethro Jones: Like you've applied to over 50 and nothing. I've applied to a bunch. Nothing's happening. And that time could be better spent because every time you fill out an application, it takes time. Mm-Hmm. And you got a research company, you gotta see who you know. You gotta connect with them. You gotta network. You gotta ask if anybody knows anybody.

[02:08:58] Jethro Jones: Like all these things go into every application. And, and then you gotta write your resume. Like I already have a resume written, but I gotta rewrite it for that specific job. Write a cover letter for it. And, and all these things are going on, and like, I just don't, I don't understand what the Lord's plan is, but I know that he's got a plan and I know that I can make it through this.

[02:09:25] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And so, you know, there have been numerous times this year where it looks like there's nothing and then all of a sudden somebody's like, Hey, Jethro, can you come do this thing for us out of the blue? And, and. For me, that is the handle of the Lord. There's no other way to describe that, and I'm so grateful for that because it's amazing and, and I love it.

[02:09:50] Jethro Jones: Uh, but it's gonna be a miracle if I get a job somewhere or if my business takes off and I don't need to get a job, but changing my perspective and saying I need to be looking for work. Has changed how I spend my days and what I'm focusing on. And you know, if I just focused on continuing to build my business, then I think my business would be in better shape right now.

[02:10:19] Jethro Jones: But that's not what, that's not what the Lord told you to do. That's not what he told me to do. So like, it's not like I've dropped it, but I have gone down quite a bit in my outreach and things like that. Well, and also you are in. At school right now too. Yes. And I'm working on my doctorate also. So there's, there's another thing, which is another thing the Lord told us to do.

[02:10:39] Jethro Jones: He did. And we didn't even talk about that. But that was a very clear, like, now's the time to do it. And uh, again, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Because it's not like we're in a place. Like that's one of the ways to measure the success. I would've thought that I could have my business totally pay for my.

[02:10:58] Jethro Jones: Uh, for my doctoral degree. Mm-hmm. And last year it looked like that was gonna be the case. Like, I remember having the interview and I was at a conference speaking, and I needed to step out into the hallway to do this, this interview with the, with the doctoral people so they could, you know, accept me into the program.

[02:11:21] Jethro Jones: And like my, how things have changed. Yeah. And, and it's just really interesting, um, that, that things have not gone the way that I thought they would. And it's really difficult to see that quote unquote failure and see me not achieving what I've wanted to. That really stinks. And it's really hard on multiple levels, uh, in multiple ways over and over again.

[02:11:51] Staci Jones: Oh, excuse me. That's not, that wasn't boring. It's just time for afternoon nap. No kidding. Day after Thanksgiving. That's, that's kind of what we need to do. Yeah. And I think like, I mean, there's so much like, and that going back to the conversation at the beginning, that's your mental load that you're carrying this year.

[02:12:11] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. The a hundred pounds of mental load. Yeah. So like I am constantly looking for. Opportunities. And so, you know, I've been able to find some things to do and found some little inklings of things here and there and uh, you know, I just, I don't know what it's actually going to look like in the end. And right now I'm really okay with that.

[02:12:41] Staci Jones: Yeah. Which is kind of crazy 'cause I never have been before. Yeah. That goes back to. Peace in Jesus Christ. Yeah. That we talked about. I mean, we've talked about how I appreciate the stability of your full-time job now. That's why that piece was so important when we talked about it. Because right now, like that is the farthest thing from what we have right now.

[02:13:05] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. And I'm more at peace now than I was when we had a full-time job. Multiple times. Yeah. And it's amazing how the Lord works in our lives, especially when we're willing to turn to him and to just trust him. Mm-Hmm. Because right now I think, um, I was at Girls Camp as a leader this year, and my second oldest Callie made me a bracelet that says, trust him.

[02:13:35] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. And I've been wearing ever since she made it. And that was July. I keep looking at that and like that's my word from this year is trusting him. Mm-Hmm. Or phrase trust him. And that's what this trial has taught us, I think a lot. And I've seen the evidences of that as I've trusted him. He's provided for us.

[02:13:57] Staci Jones: He's given us opportunities. Like we don't just magically have money up here in our bank account every month, like you and I are both still working. To have every opportunity to provide for our family. Mm-Hmm. Even if things aren't working out, like we're working, we're doing all that. We're having that action.

[02:14:16] Staci Jones: We're not being acted upon. We're acting and trusting. Mm-hmm. And trusting is part of that action is we are actively trusting in the Lord that as we are doing our best to do what he's asked us to do, just follow the spirit, seek personal relation. All that. We're trusting him that he will fill in where we need him to be filling in.

[02:14:43] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And we know that he will. Mm-Hmm. We, we don't think it, we don't hope it, we know it. And that's, that's a big difference from where we've been in the past. And, you know, I, I've said multiple times over the past few months, I don't really care what I do for work. Um, I. I know God will tell me when it's the right thing.

[02:15:07] Staci Jones: And when you fully trust in, uh, Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father, what you want doesn't really matter anymore. Mm-Hmm. Because you understand that what he wants for you and wants you to become is better than you could ever have wanted for yourself and wanted yourself to become. Mm-Hmm. It's hard and it's uncomfortable, but there is no growth in complacency.

[02:15:31] Jethro Jones: No. So if you're willing to trust him enough and trust in what his plan is for you, there's so much joy, so much growth, and so much more than you could have ever imagined. Yeah. That's amazing. It is. And it's so peaceful. Mm-Hmm. So peaceful. It's really peaceful when you realize that you don't have to do it alone.

[02:15:53] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Don't like that's, I think you don't, that's the aspect of trust that I think is probably the most empowering. Is knowing that you trust him enough that you don't do it alone. Mm-Hmm. That it doesn't matter what else goes on because you're trusting in him. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So speaking of trusting in him, we don't know where we're at right now.

[02:16:13] Jethro Jones: Like in our, that's Sam sitting right next to you on a couch. That's where I'm at. I don't know where you're at. Well, you lemme finish the sentence. We don't know where we're at in this trial. Mm-Hmm. Are we in the very beginning of it? Are we. Towards the end is some miracle gonna happen tomorrow? We just don't know.

[02:16:31] Jethro Jones: And so part of why I want to do this series is we're gonna come back every year for the next decade. And even if we get divorced, even if, even if there's major tragedy, we're cut your hair, I guess. Don't more cutting my hair. No more marathons. I'm, I'm swearing that stuff off. Um, so. Even if bad things happen, we're gonna come back and we're gonna talk.

[02:16:55] Jethro Jones: And a future episode may be a lot shorter. We may be really struggling even more. We may be, uh, we may have turned from the Lord and have a different perspective. Both of us hope that's not what happens. Yep. But I think doing this and talking about it is part of what's going to keep us there. But we don't know where we're at in this trial.

[02:17:16] Jethro Jones: And so 10 years ago we were just moving to Alaska. And so much has happened in that 10 years. 10 years from now. It's impossible to predict the future. But what do you want to be true in 10 years from now? What do you want our life to look like? What, what things are important? Well, I think a lot of things that we hold onto now, I want to be true then.

[02:17:43] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like I want our testimonies to be as true as they are. Or more true. Stronger. Yeah, more true. Um. My trust in the Lord, I want it to be even more true. Mm-Hmm. Um, you know, I want us to still be gonna the temple we go every week. Now, I don't know if it's always gonna look like that, but just regular temple attendance.

[02:18:05] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. I think when we've had essentially almost nothing this year, the things that we do have, I want to continue. Mm-Hmm. I want to continue our gospel. Discussions and relationship in our family that we do as our kids are gonna age over the next 10 years. I still want that to be a constant thing that we're talking about, even if it's through text as a family.

[02:18:29] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. Like the building of our testimonies as a family and individually and sharing those experiences. I want that to continue. That's been so powerful. Mm-Hmm. Like I look about like what we haven't had this year. I was like, none of that actually really matters what we have had. Yeah. Our increased testimonies, our relationships with each other, the growth in those.

[02:18:52] Staci Jones: Like that's what I want in 10 years. Mm-Hmm. I want that still to, I want our relationships with our kids and who knows, maybe grandkids, probably within 10 years, probably. 'cause our youngest is gonna be 23. Yeah. Our oldest will be 28. Yeah. I want that to still be a thing. Like I want that to be something valued.

[02:19:12] Staci Jones: The relationships we have. Whether it's with all of them or some of them may choose not to, I don't know. But I want my test, our testimon to still be growing. I want our relationship to still be growing. I want our communication to improve. Like I think that, you know, I can say it now, I don't know what if I'll be able to say it in 10 years, but like this has been such a huge hard trial for us that we've grown so much in a way that I never want to forget that.

[02:19:41] Staci Jones: Mm-Hmm. I don't. If this trial has to continue for 10 years and we are just living by the Lord providing for us and we can keep our spirituality and everything else, the level it's at, I'm fine with that. Well, not at the level it's at, but growing at at least the pace that's growing. Like, well, what, like our current trial?

[02:20:01] Staci Jones: Yes. Like grow, like nothing. I don't want it to go lower like I want it to be, I want it to go, I don't want it to be less, I don't want us to lose it. What I have found when we have no physical money, there's spiritual like value, value, energy, value so much more. And I don't ever wanna forget that. So I want that to be a lesson that I, I have in 10 years.

[02:20:26] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. I wanna remember this year. Thank you for recording about it. Yep. Yep. I wanna remember the lessons learned this year. And grow on that and build on that Mm-Hmm. For the next 10 years and beyond, till the day I die. Yeah. Well, this is something that you've, you and I have debated much this year of, um, we, there are things that we learned through our trials that we don't learn otherwise.

[02:20:52] Jethro Jones: And, uh, and especially as it comes to financially. There are things that we've learned because we have not been well financially this year that we wouldn't have learned otherwise. And what I keep saying is, well try me, Lord, please gimme a financial abundance and make sure I learn that lesson in other ways.

[02:21:15] Jethro Jones: Yeah. And, and so like, I, I want us to be all those things that you said, and I want the, I want the Lord to know. That I can learn with whatever he puts in front of me. Mm-Hmm. And I want him to, he has blessed me greatly already. I want him to continue to bless me greatly. And what I really want is the wisdom to see the blessings that, that I may not be able to see otherwise.

[02:21:47] Jethro Jones: Because there have been so many blessings this year and it so many miracles. And I also don't want to forget the things that we've learned from this. Because they are really powerful and, and they can be life changing. And I want to remember them. They are life changing. Did I say they can be? Yes. Yeah, they can be if we listen.

[02:22:08] Jethro Jones: Mm-Hmm. That's what, that's the point I'm making. Okay. I was like, I'm pretty sure they're life changing to me. Yeah. They, they can be life-changing if we listen and we remember them. And so that's what I want to be able to do is listen and remember them. Mm-Hmm. And if we do that, we're gonna be blessed. Uh.

[02:22:24] Jethro Jones: We're gonna continue to have what we need taken care of. And what I've certainly learned this year is that we can rely on the Lord mm-Hmm. In everything. And we can just let him be the, like, I don't, I am so not stressed about money. It's crazy. Like I can't even believe it. Same with me. It's so weird. It's so weird because we've always been more stressed about money than we are now.

[02:22:52] Jethro Jones: And we have so much less, uh, so much less control over it now than we ever did. And it's, it's just so interesting because who would've thought that going through this trial would make us less stressed? That we would, we would see the value in the things that we already have in our relationships and in the love in our family, and in the spirit in our home.

[02:23:19] Jethro Jones: That stuff's way more important. And so we've been setting goals for years as a family and we've always set 'em, you know, in the traditional way of like things that we want to accomplish. And we're gonna do that again this year. Uh, but I feel like my goals are gonna be a lot different than they have in the past.

[02:23:43] Staci Jones: And they're gonna focus more on things of an eternal nature than of a checkbox, a checkbox or a temporal nature. Mm-Hmm. Because they just seem like they don't matter quite as much as I thought they did. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I think, yep. Growing through trials teaches you what really matters most. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanna say?

[02:24:10] Staci Jones: I don't think so. Okay. This was good. Thanks for the most. I've talked in a long time. No, you talk this much every single day. This is the most you've ever recorded yourself talking. Let's be honest. That's true. It will probably be the most time ever. Well, we'll see what happens in the next year when we do this again.

[02:24:29] Staci Jones: Alright, sounds good. Thanks Jethro. I love you. Love you too.