Jethro D. Jones: Welcome to a
decade, never to be forgotten.
I'm your host, Jethro Jones.
I've got a great interview for you
today, but as sometimes happens, I messed
up the first part of the recording.
I accidentally kicked the plug and
pulled up the power on my recorder,
and we lost it the beginning.
What a bummer, but these things happen.
So my interview today is with Moses
Loa Hugo, who is an immigrant from,
the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
He lived there during the war.
He fled to Burundi and then to Kenya,
and then came to America, and he's been
in America for quite a few years now.
And I met Moses because he is the
branch president of a Regal branch,
is what it's called, the Regal Branch.
And it is a Swahili speaking group.
And as you'll find out, it's
actually multiple languages
are spoken in this group.
Moses's story is amazing and you're
gonna hear most of it, but some of the
things that got cut off that I'm just
going to give a brief summary of is.
He told a little bit about his
journey from, uh, the Democratic
Republic of the Congo to Burundi
and then to Kenya, and then to
America, where he started in Texas.
He saw some pretty terrible things.
Uh, he described it as the worst
things you can see men do to other
men, um, including his dad being
murdered right in front of him.
Truly tragedy has hit this man, and
yet he is a. Happy, positive person
whose life has been completely changed
because of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And this is a fascinating, fantastic
interview and I'm so looking forward to
talking with him over the next 10 years
because he is truly one of the happiest
people that I personally know despite.
All of the challenges and struggles
that he's gone through in his life.
So we're gonna pick up this story as he
is contemplating the move to Spokane,
Washington, where we currently live.
And this is a great conversation.
If you are interested and want to
participate in the 10 year journal
that is associated with this, you
can go to adn tbf.com, which is a
decade never to be forgotten.com.
And, uh, if you go to a decade, dev
to be forgotten.com, there's a link
to the 10 year journal up in the top.
And so you can click on that and
get started on that 10 year journal.
It's a pretty cool daily journaling
app where it'll ask the same question
every July 1st, every June 1st.
Uh, it'll be that same question.
It re 366 questions that it repeats
over the next 10 years, and you
can compare and see how your.
Uh, stuff is how your life is
progressing and what that all looks like.
So without further ado, we're
gonna jump right into my
conversation with Moses Lewa Hugo.
Moses: My wife, I got married in
2010 and my wife was pregnant.
Doctors were, well,
you're not gonna make this child.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And so, because the baby looked
too close and the doctors thought
that my wife will have a miscarriage.
And so my, my wife was, I think I need
to go a place where, be praying more
because God can do, can protect my child.
So we had a friend that we have
known for a long time since we
lived in Africa, and she was.
We gotta move to Washington where
we have friends who understand the
Bible more, the scriptures more,
and we can have time to pray.
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: And then I was, if that's what
we're going to do to keep our baby, yes.
So I moved to Spokane.
Jethro D: Okay.
Now just a second.
Because most people moved because
of jobs, but you moved so that you
could be closer to people who had
faith and believed in the Bible.
Why that is,
Moses: that is, that is correct.
Jethro D: that
Moses: That is correct.
In Texas, I had a job and I loved
that job, but when it came to family,
as, you know, family first, so I had
to, to, to listen and, and come here,
move here for people who have more
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: So we moved up here and
at that time when we moved,
I used to go to other church
Jethro D: Okay.
Moses: and we created myself, my wife,
and those friends of mine that I met here.
We created a group, we
call it prayer group.
Mm-hmm.
And we used to, in the evening,
we'll gather at one guy's, uh,
house and we pray, we read the Bible
and done so, so on and so forth.
And I was a, a very busy man.
I was very busy, man.
I'm not sure where my wife
met the missionaries and
they used to come to my home.
They will read the scriptures,
the book of moment, the Bible.
They'll go through some
lessons and teachings.
But, uh, being honest, I never felt I was
interested talking to the missionaries.
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Until
Moses: one day my uncle
came and he called me.
He came to my place.
He just came, that was back 2018.
He came, uh, to my house, to my
apartment and he was take me to Winkle.
So in Spokane we do have two winkles,
one in north, one in the valley.
Then I told him what
we can go to the north.
'cause at that time I used
to live on next to Wesley.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And Crestline, it's nearby
WinCo, maybe five, seven minutes away.
Mm-hmm.
I was, let's go to WinCo.
The ones in the valley.
It's about five, seven minute.
The one in the north, about seven minute.
He was, Nope, I don't wanna go there.
Take me to the one in the valley.
I was, well, valley's about 20, 25
minute here it's five, seven minute.
So if I match, if I compare, we
better go to the one's closest and
it was, no, I want the one far away.
Jethro D: Hmm,
Moses: Ah, it was all right.
Jethro D: Okay.
Ly
Moses: Ly
Jethro D: we,
Moses: we were taught to obey
the elder and that's what I did.
So I had to go, I said, okay, hop
in my car, let's go to the valley.
And as we went down, we got it.
We find we got there.
Um.
Guess what he was looking for.
It was only a bucket of flour.
corn flour.
it.
That's it.
Nothing
flour, nothing You, you
can get it anywhere.
Yes.
So I was, that's it.
That's why we drove far
away to, yep, that's it.
Okay.
Alright.
So, um, and then he was, he
tapped into his pocket and he
said he gave me a food stamp card.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Mm-hmm.
We call EBT card.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Call this EBT, find out if we
have enough money to purchase this corn.
Flour in this little sock,
in this little, uh, bucket.
I was Okay.
Then I called as I was calling,
I heard this voice right behind
me and say, wow, we are blessed.
We can.
I can purchase that flower fo you.
Then I looked, it was this woman at
that time, I did not know her name.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Then she kept talking.
Then I said, no, we got it.
We fine.
Mm-hmm.
I think we don't, we don't need you.
We good.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Then she kept saying that.
She kept repeating.
Then my, my uncle turned and asked me,
because my uncle was new at that time.
He was, is that normal
Jethro D: Uh huh
Because
I
Moses: seen it since I came
to America that someone is
going to give you a free stuff.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
No.
Moses: Well, Africa, it's very hard
for someone just to give you a penny.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
It's
Moses: It's nearly impossible.
And so I said, no, it's not normal Then.
Then my uncle turn and say, then
that's okay my uncle was not able
to understand English, so he did not
know what the woman was talking about.
So I had to translate to tell
him what this woman was asking.
And then, and then my uncle was okay.
Then we called her.
She came in, she purchased that
corn and I guess it was $20, 20
to 10, $25 if I can remember.
It was now more than that.
Then, uh,
then we exchange some numbers
and she gave us an invitation.
Then one of the day when she
got home, I. That woman called,
gave her husband the number.
Then the husband called me.
Then we talked a little bit.
Then I connected my uncle.
My uncle, um, spoke French or I still
speak in French and Swahili, other
African dialect, dialect or languages.
Then I translated form and uh,
they gave us an invitation.
They said, invite all your friends.
You'll be just at dinner.
You come, we eat, we pray, we sing.
That said,
Jethro D: it.
I know
Moses: I have a bunch of friends.
I said, wow, Dave.
I don't know if I can
bring all my friends.
Are you gonna have a place for us?
Yes, I have a big house.
Just come on in.
I invited my friends.
Woo.
Maybe we were.
rough estimation, 50 people.
Jethro D: Wow.
Moses: Maybe.
Maybe more than that.
Jethro D: So they just
invited you to their house?
Yep.
And said, Hey, come on over
for dinner or something.
And you brought 50 or
closest friends with you?
Moses: More than that.
Because I remember we had about 12 or
15 cars carrying people with this van.
I had a minivan and other people
brought very big trucks, very big
cars that can take about 10 people.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And we were a lot, a lot
my family, my uncles, my friends.
We went down and it was this big party.
We ate, we sung, we prayed.
It was a very fantastic moment.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: That's how we get started.
Then they said, okay.
Jethro D: okay,
Moses: Where do you go to church?
We talked and my uncle was,
I'll be glad to come and, and,
and go to church with you one day.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Then they say,
yeah, uh, we go here.
It was in the valley.
We went down one of these days with bunch
of friends again to church and my family,
my wife, my kids, and so it was very nice.
So that's how I ended
up, uh, going to church.
Um, there is a feeling
that I got last time.
The first time when I went
to church, I entered this
church and I felt like cooling
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: very fresh and very
cooling moment inside my heart.
Mm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Like an example of someone
who is, let's say summertime, you
are outside and, um, it's very hot.
You go to this room that has,
uh, cooling ac the way you feel.
Jethro D: Yeah.
yeah.
Moses: the feeling that I got.
So from there I was, maybe I belong here.
And, and I said, now I think I'm
ready to talk to the missionaries.
Jethro D: Wow.
Moses: And so missionaries came to my
house with a gentleman, very nice guy.
His name is Phillip Er.
And, uh, we had a lesson I. I remember
one question they asked me when we were
talking about the plan of salvation.
Then, uh, I told 'em what I believed and
what they believe in, and I remember them
asking me, what can your child do to you
that will make you curse them and say,
I don't want you, not my child no more.
Jethro D: more.
Hmm.
Moses: And I was, I don't think
there is anything like that.
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: So the teachings that we were
taught in Africa, I noticed it was a
little harsh that you, we were taught.
If you wanna repent, you repent now.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Because if you die, it's over.
So
then as carefully, I read the
scriptures, the Book of Mormon
Doctrine of Covenant and the Bible,
it shows when Jesus died, he went and
preached the people who were in prison.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: So I was,
this
is correct.
So from there, I, uh,
Jethro D: follow
Moses: all the lessons and I got baptized.
I make, I made a decision to
be baptized and I ended up
being a member of the church.
And I'm so grateful to be here.
I'm so grateful to be part
of this, uh, big family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jethro D: Well, and you've had a very
long journey to, to your faith because
you've believed in God for a long time and
you've had miraculous experiences, uh, in
Africa that eventually led you to here.
Um, do you wanna talk about some of
those experiences where the Lord was
with you, some miracles that you saw,
uh, when you were still in Africa?
Moses: Yes.
Um, so like I mentioned,
it's a long journey.
I try to summarize maybe for the
next time we can have more talk.
Jethro D: That's right.
We're gonna be talking
over the next 10 years,
Moses: so,
Jethro D: these stories
will come up, uh, over time.
Moses: Alright.
So,
um,
when I was in Africa.
I was born in a family that believed
in, in, in, in Crest, and I was a
Christian since, um, my brother,
I, one of my brother who is Muslim.
Um, but he's a good guy.
And, um,
so in our family, I have two
gentlemen here in America,
we came together as a family.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: They are not my family,
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: but I never knew that until 2012
when as I grow up, as I grew up,
uh,
Jethro D: I've.
Moses: Usually see or saw disguise.
And I believed they were my brother
because my mom never told me that
this gentleman are not your brothers.
No, she never did.
She never told me that.
We not, we don't share mom
or dad or anything like that.
Mm-hmm.
A bunch of kids were coming to our home.
We will eat with all kids from the
street who lost their parent and stuff.
And it was like just a bunch of kids,
like hospital, like, um, it was this
place where all the kids and other even
adult will come stay to home and, um,
they felt they were part of the family.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And, um, that.
I grew up with that spirit
of understanding, not having
this discrimination and stuff.
I had the, that experience from
childhood, that every party
are my brothers and sisters.
So when the war clashed in 1996,
I, when we fled, we spent at
least a few years in the forest.
Um, the horrible moment, uh, I don't
know if I can explain it to you, you
can understand me, but, um, folks who
were in the army, uh, not only in the
army, folks who were in Afghanistan or
Iraqi, or people who were in a war zone.
When I'm saying this, or if
they, they hear this, they can
understand what I'm saying.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Mm-hmm.
I lived good five years without
a hope that I'm going to
live in the next two minute.
And
And it was this bomb, this
bullet, bam, bam, bam, bam,
bam, ba, night, day, night, day.
No morning, no daytime, no hope.
It was part of me.
I, at that time,
I've seen all horrible stuff that human
being can witness, and I believed that
it, it came to a point where I was numb.
And I knew I'm next.
So,
Jethro D: and Moses, you weren't
part of the fighting, correct?
No.
Moses: he was
Jethro D: a, a person living as a
young man and uh, as a child and then
a young man and then an adult all
while this was going on around you.
Is that right?
Moses: That is correct.
That is correct.
And seeing people, not soldiers, not
milit, just civilians, how they get killed
being carried off the head by a machete
Jethro D: mm-hmm.
Moses: and all these horrible
stuff that you can tell.
Jethro D: I,
Moses: have a few moments that I
remember one time I was coming from
school and, um, as I was walking, I.
A group of kids walking, coming
from school, and we were caught in
the middle of this fighting, and it
was just this bam, bam, bam, bam,
bam, boom, bam, bam, bam, boom.
I, I prayed.
I said, God, if you can help
me here, I will follow you.
I did not know what or what to say.
At that time, I, I did not have the
correct word to say, I did not know.
I knew this is it.
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And as this bullet were ringing,
Jethro D: damn, damn.
Moses: and I just felt, I was standing in
the middle of this fight with other kids.
Of course, bunch of kids got killed.
My brain was frozen.
I did not know what to think,
what to say, except God, if
you help me here, follow you.
Mm-hmm.
And I felt right.
When I finished, I felt like someone
touched my shoulder and say, run.
Then I start running.
Jethro D: Hmm.
I
Moses: did run maybe good
four hours without nonstop.
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: When I reached to a point, one
point I, I looked, it was a little
safe nearby the border of Burundi.
For those who know the map of
the Congo, they can look this up.
I was in a place called Sange, and here
I was almost, I was at the place called,
uh, Kire near, far away from Kire.
It was nearby the boat of Burundi.
And, um, I stopped, I went to
this family, random family.
Um, they saw me, how was, how I
looked, and um, they offered me water.
They gave me a five liter of
water and I drank all, finish
Jethro D: all
Moses: five liter of water.
Jethro D: That's a lot.
Moses: Yeah.
I slept in the morning.
I remembered I don't have my
mom, I don't have my brothers.
Everything's all done.
So I returned.
I returned home where when I gather
Jethro D: bodies were
Moses: all over the place because it
was, I just returned the next day.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Bodies were laying on the
street all over the place and it
was, maybe you'll see a head here,
arm here, a body without a head.
You'll see a leg without a body.
The rest of the body see all
these pieces, human being
pieces.
It was just horrible.
So if I can go back a little bit, my
dad was shot and killed back in 1997.
That was May 20th, and he
was killed in front of me.
So.
I was with him when this guy came
and just ba, ba, ba and killed him.
So I've lived a horrible life and all
these, I had this very bad nightmare.
Each time I'll go to bed, I will
remember these pieces of the bodies, the
human being that I've been seeing and,
witnessed, and I'll be used screaming
and could not sleep for long time.
I can tell you today, if no one comes
to wake me up, I am now waking up.
So since I, I committed myself, I gave
my life to Jesus Christ, everything's
gone and everything's so new and, Hmm.
I'm so proud.
I can tell you that I've been,
my,
I've, my, life has changed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jethro D: Well, and that is the real
amazing part of the atonement is that
you've experienced some really awful,
terrible things, and yet you are one
of the happiest people that I know.
And you always have a smile on your face.
You're always quick to laugh,
and you, you're so positive.
Even when things seem stressful, you, it
seems like it doesn't even bother you.
And, and that's what is.
What I attribute to the atonement of
Christ, that it can take away those pains.
Um, how do you see that, how do you
see so much joy in life right now
despite all the horrors you've seen?
Moses: I, I, I agree and I can tell
that each time and in fact, sometimes.
I, uh, I am an emotional guy.
I wasn't like this the last year
that I can remember back 1996.
I remember crying or cried for my dad
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: when he passed.
Asked my life was like crunching my
life was like, crashed down because
he was pretty much everything
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: at that time.
That's how I understood.
He, he was the bread maker.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And I, I, I knew everything's gone.
No school, no nothing.
And with all stuff that I've been
through, my heart became numb.
I would see stuff and I won't feel like
pain or I was not able to feel this guilty
Jethro D: or
Moses: forgiveness to others.
No.
Until when I met Christ,
everything changed.
I knew, I believed what we read
through the Bible, through the book
of Mormon, through the scriptures, all
the preachers, all the lessons taught.
All this stuff that people
Jethro D: talk
Moses: Jesus talk about the heaven.
After the baptism, my
soul was like renewed.
I can think about my life.
I can think about what I've been through.
I can think about how people are
suffering and I feel the pain.
Now I can feel it.
Compared to last time I was not
able, I wasn't able to feel it.
I was numb to it.
Now I see it, it's like
now I am a human being.
I can see and say, oh,
feel sorry for others.
Feel pain for others.
And when I, when I'm, we are just
passengers and we have the place
where we aiming we'll be going
somewhere at the end of this.
There will be judgment.
Now, what is going to
happen to the judgment day?
Am I going to be judged
for what I have done?
What I've, I've lived here.
I feel tears.
I don't see, uh, I don't wanna
see other people suffering, other
people going through some stuff.
And.
I'm more than happy to
help whatever I can.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And when I think about the
scripture, I think about the gospel.
I think about Jesus the
way he suffered for me.
And I have nothing to repay back.
It's where I feel joy to help others.
It's where I feel
happiness to help others.
Jethro D: to help others.
And
Moses: I cannot count how many people I've
helped, but I just think I'm a small drop
of water trying to do my best that I can.
Jethro D: Yeah.
And that's such a powerful statement
because you've seen things that
are so terrible and you're not
trying to make up for them or atone
for those bad things yourself.
What I'm hearing you say is that
you're seeing the goodness of God
in your life and saying, if God
is this good to me, then I need to
be the best I can to other people.
Is that a fair summary?
Moses: Very fair.
Very fair.
Very fair.
And I can tell how many times I've,
I,
used to work at the bank.
I, used to work at the bank and then
there is this woman who came and
say, Hey Moses, you are a refugee.
Were you?
I was, yeah.
How about you come and
work in refugee settings?
And I remember how other
people helped me, served me,
and I did not doubt to say yes to
that woman because what came into my
mind, and when I went down, when I
went back home, I spoke to my wife
and say, I think I need to pay back.
Hmm.
Jethro D: Hmm.
Moses: And that pushed me to go
work for the refugee settings.
It's just like to pay back to help
those who are in need, who need help.
Um, when I see someone need food, um,
they need housing, they need a shelter,
and I feel good inside when I'm part
of bring the solution to that person.
When someone one needed food
and I was there to help in any
way, it makes me feel good.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: And, um, and I feel, I
feel nice as such, as pain back
compared also for where I came from.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Yeah.
Jethro D: And, and so because of that,
you have the experience having gone
through all the refugee stuff yourself
to know what they're going through
and know how to help them through it
to help them, uh, acclimate here in
the United States and become part of
our country and you help people with
citizenship and all those kinds of things.
What do you want to say
about, about that aspect also?
Moses: I, I am so happy to be
part of it, and, uh, we have,
Jethro D: have,
Moses: we have, uh, I
Jethro D: I have,
Moses: I, I flew from here to
Kampala, Uganda in the refugee camp
to Tanzania in the refugee camp,
to Burundi in the refugee camp.
And we have helped tons.
I'm talking tons of people.
You know, here in America
we are so blessed.
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And time to time here, people
take so many stuff for granted.
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And which I understand, I
still have my bag that says no English
English
in my room.
And time to time I usually
tell my daughters and say,
this is how far I came.
Yeah.
And I'm, I feel nice.
I feel good when we help these people,
uh, to get shelter, citizenship,
green cards, all this, we help them.
And, uh, when they're celebrating, we
go down, we, oh, we cheer and all this.
It's a very happy moment.
At the same time when we remember
those who still in pain and suffering,
they don't know what to eat.
When we go down, we take food, we
take, um, we have videos on online.
I some next time I'll share with you
and we can share to our listeners,
our people will be listening to this.
Man, you go, you'll see, um, hundreds,
thousands of people coming to get soaps.
Bottle of soaps.
With tear people coming,
getting all this food.
I. With tear in the eyes.
This guy, we don't know
him, he's bringing me food.
They start crying.
You cannot hold your tears.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: And it's just, I think it
is part of why Jesus came to earth
to help us and we can see that
and help others who are in need.
Mm-hmm.
And it is beautiful moment when, when
you, you are in such ceremony services.
And if you not something crazy in your
head, I think when you help someone, you
must feel something inside your heart.
Yeah.
That pushes you to do more and more.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: Yeah.
Jethro D: And for a while that was
numbing you and now your heart is
overflowing and correct and you feel
this, this need to, to help others.
And it's, and I see it all the
time, which is just amazing.
In fact, just before we started this, you
were helping someone with some paperwork
and making sure they understood what
it was and where to take it and how to
fill it out correctly so that they could
have their pathway as clear as possible.
And you do that again
and again all the time.
And it's, and it's really amazing.
Um, I want to talk a little bit
more about your experiences.
In the church because once you
got baptized, then, um, shortly
after that, a group was formed
and then it became a branch.
You took a bunch of people down to
Salt Lake for general conference.
Many of you have gone through the
temple as well, um, including your
mom recently, which is so exciting.
What do you want to say about
your experiences since joining
the church here in Spokane?
Moses: Oh, I have a lot to talk about that
you,
Jethro D: up.
Here we go.
You
Moses: you know, we can spend the whole
day talking about this, so, so, okay.
Lemme tell you one story
before I jump to that.
Okay.
So when, when, uh, I have, I
have my brother-in-law, he's,
he's married to my older sister.
He thought maybe in America
there is no church that praise
God and do God's willing.
And he thought, oh, in
America people are freedom.
They do all this crazy stuff.
There is not believers in America.
Then one day when I met with the
missionaries, met with, at that time
it was a bishop, and we met, we talked.
Then I took a decision to be baptized.
As I was doing my lessons, I felt inside.
I needed to share, even if I
don't know what I'm sharing.
Yeah.
Jethro D: that's very real.
Yep.
Moses: Alright.
So I called him one day on WhatsApp
because phones is very expensive.
Caught 'em on WhatsApp.
Thank for these genius people.
Created WhatsApp, Uhhuh,
Jethro D: Uhhuh,
Moses: Carmen, say hey.
Um,
Jethro D: you called him.
Where does he live?
Moses: He lives in Africa.
Burundi.
Okay.
It is,
Jethro D: still back in
Moses: he's still back in Burundi.
He's still back in Burundi.
Okay.
And, and, and, uh, so I said,
well, you thought there is
no people who can follow God.
How about you come and share with me when
I'm doing the lessons you can be with me.
And he was, I be glad he's a pastor.
He was a pastor of one of the method,
uh, church, Protestants Church.
And so it was night, the
first day was our daytime.
It was nighttime for them.
Because we have these time
differences and he listened to this.
He was on WhatsApp.
We finished the lessons.
They asked, okay, any questions?
And they asked him the questions and
he did ask some questions that were
answered then, then he felt very good.
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And he was, I have friends
the next time, let's share.
Yeah.
And so and so the, like we got burned out.
We light it up something there.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: Alright.
So as I, I continued doing my
lessons, missionaries and I
with President Philip Huber.
We will wake up four in the morning our
time so that we can catch them in daytime.
Sometimes five in the morning and it
will start lessons with the missionaries.
And um, as I was doing lessons
here, we were doing lessons there
Jethro D: and
Moses: was playing part, at that time I
was not yet baptized, but I was playing
a role of being a translator because
the folks were not speaking Swahili.
We had one gentleman who was from Kenya
and he was speaking Swahili at that time.
Jethro D: One of the missionaries.
Moses: One of the missionaries.
One of the missionaries.
Jethro D: Yeah.
So
Moses: I think his name is Cohen.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Elder Cohen.
Yep.
Elder Cohen.
Moses: Elder Cohen.
So through all this, it
was, it was fantastic.
Yeah, it was
Jethro D: And
so while you're taking the missionary
lessons here in the States, you
were also translating the missionary
lessons into Swahili for your
family and friends in Burundi.
And that grew pretty big.
Right?
And there were a lot of people
over there who ended up getting
baptized and forming a branch.
And these were all people in
a refugee camp too, right?
Moses: Correct.
Correct.
Yeah.
So if these, when I was baptized, when we
concluded, they concluded, I got baptized.
I got baptized.
And so one day at that time, president
Philip K came in and say, Moses,
lets, let's form a Swahili branch.
Mm-hmm.
I was a bishop.
I'm only one person how this will be.
And it was, God knows.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: And I was, okay, let's do it.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: Yeah.
And, and we started this broadcast Zoom.
We were sharing this Zoom link
Jethro D: from here.
Moses: Um, Australia,
Jethro D: Canada,
Moses: Africa, Kenya, Burundi,
Rwanda, Tanzania, and man, so as
of now, we have people in Canada.
We referred missionaries to Canada, say,
Hey, um, if you wanna learn more, go see
this and we will look the missionaries.
And we send them away.
They go, they meet.
We have brothers and sisters
now in Australia, in Canada, in
Africa, who part of this Zoom
thing, they came to know Christ.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Well, and what's amazing is
that the Zoom started because
it was during Covid, right?
And so everybody was broadcasting
church and you, instead of just sharing
it locally, shared it to anybody who
speaks Swahili, who wanted to be part of
it.
And so
for, we moved here to Washington during
that time, and so you were connected to
our ward and so we've got to participate
and see, uh, what that was like.
And, and it was really
amazing that you'd have.
This Zoom meeting that was going out
to all these different people all over
the place, and you still are sending
that zoom link out to, to everybody.
And uh, we're, we're in a good situation
where it's a lot easier to do that than
it was at first, uh, which is nice.
But the amazing thing is, is that
you saw the gospel, saw the blessings
it was giving you and not knowing
everything and all the answers yourself.
You just started sharing it with
people that you thought needed it.
And so because of that, people all
over the world have heard the gospel,
which is amazing, but also people here,
people close to you and, and all that.
So it, it's been really amazing to watch.
And it, it just, the Lord
makes it all work, right?
Correct.
Moses: correct.
It's just fantastic.
So when you come to our congregations,
to our meeting and you see all these
people coming from all over the place,
our branch now we speak five languages.
Yeah.
So we speak, we have people from
um, Sudan, they speak Arabic.
We have people from Rwanda
that speak in Rwanda.
We have people from Tanzania in the Congo.
They speak Swahili.
We have people from West Africa,
they speak French, and we have all
these languages, French, Arabic,
Ian, Kinyarwanda, Swahili, that
is spoken in the congregation.
When you come, you just love it.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Well, and today at the end
of the meeting, you, uh.
You translated in three different
languages, English, uh, Swahili, and
one other that I didn't know what
it was, but you made an announcement
and had to translate it into three
different things to make sure
everybody understood what was going on.
Moses: That is correct.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: So, so sometimes, sometimes,
uh, when I'm translating someone,
we have folks who are, um, capable
of speaking couple languages.
They'll be speaking English, then
they will miss the word in English.
They will say in Swahili.
Then I'll jump in and say in
English or French or this.
Jethro D: yeah, yeah.
Moses: Yeah.
Jethro D: It's pretty great.
So when, just as an example, when the,
uh, brother who was conducting said, uh,
asti, which is Thank you, you translated
it into thank you for the English speakers
Moses: Yes.
Jethro D: and that kind of thing.
So, so that's a
Moses: a lot of fun.
It's,
Jethro D: so, uh, what about these
experiences where you've been able to
go to general conference, for example,
meet with general authorities, uh, as
a group and then as a branch later.
What is, what does that mean to
you to see the, the attention that
you've gotten and, and positive
stories about, about you and positive
interactions with, with other folks?
Moses: Well, it been very fantastic and
wonderful experience to meet, to go.
We people were, no, uh, we don't
know what those, uh, the place where
they do the, um, the meeting general
conferences is they just go them.
It's just about them.
And I was no.
Mm-hmm.
It's not about that.
Come on in.
So we gave them all this
brotherhood and all these friends.
We had people who were not members.
Okay.
I wanna come and see.
Now, as I can tell you, they are members.
Yeah.
They were inspired from the, when we
went and there was, oh, we have seen,
uh, stuff on, on Google, on YouTube,
criticizing the church, talking bad stuff
about the church, but this is not real.
Mm-hmm.
And people ended up being members.
Baptized and confirmed
they're still in church today.
And it brought a very amazing experience.
People understood, they felt
the love of the our savior.
And until today they can stand
up and say, don't listen on crazy
people talking stuff on, on, uh, on
social media or YouTube and stuff.
Yeah.
So it was a very fantastic,
um, experience where people,
um, believed and felt themself.
You know, you can tell someone,
oh, there is this and this.
It will be hard for you to convince
someone who is feeling something inside.
Yeah.
And and it's hard to deny it yourself.
Yeah.
To deny that.
No, I did not feel it.
It's hard to deny.
People can deny it, but if it, if,
if it's something that you feel
yourself, it's harder to deny it.
Jethro D: Yeah.
It's, it's one of the amazing things
about the Holy Ghost that when, uh,
Jesus says he'll send the comforter,
which will tell you the truth of
all things, that is very real.
And when the Holy Ghost confirms
to our hearts that something is
real, uh, we can't deny it later, we
can say, you know, maybe something
else, but we, we know what it was.
And there's no way to say,
I didn't feel the spirit.
There's no way to say that that
wasn't real, because you feel it and
you experience it and you know it.
And it's so powerful.
Even if it's very simple, even if it's
just how you described it earlier,
that that feeling of walking into a
building on a warm day and there's air
conditioning, even if it's that you, you
can't deny that that meant something.
And that's what's so powerful.
And if you do, then you're
just lying about it.
And, and people can choose to do that.
That's their prerogative.
But.
Y you've, you've seen this firsthand
with so many people and, and so have
I, with the people who've come to
church, that it's really amazing.
I would like you to talk about your
mom joining the church because,
uh, it took her longer than you.
Right.
And she wasn't totally
into it, and now she is.
And, and tell me about that experience.
So,
Moses: yeah, so again, correct.
When, when you say, I felt this,
and pe people can say whatever
they want, but you cannot deny it.
So coming back to my mom's experience,
so my mom used to come to, she
was born and grew up in Catholic
church and it was very hard for
her to understand what's going on.
And what I did, I was, yep.
Just come to church.
No one is telling you to be baptized.
No one is telling you to be a member.
Just come and see.
So as she kept coming, as she kept coming
one day she was, yes, this is real.
And I wanna be part of it.
I was, oh mom.
what made you change your mind?
She was, I felt it inside.
I felt it.
So it's something that came,
I don't know how she felt it.
I don't know how she came up to
understand, but all these coming,
listening and follow the lessons
coming to church and she was
able to make this decision and,
And when you go, I don't think someone
can go and say, Hey, there is this church,
this crazy stuff that he will listen to.
No, she may not even listen.
Because the way she feels, the
way she understands, the way she
took it, the way she believes it,
it's very powerful.
very powerful.
And as you can see, even if
she's sick, she will be here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
She
that means something to me.
One day I stood up and I said, when I
come to church, I don't know other people.
I'm talking about my
me, my personal opinion.
I'm not talking how other people feel.
I say how I feel.
I feel this is home after the whole week
going back and forth doing this and that.
This only a day.
That you come here, it's like a pause.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: You feel comfort, you feel
your pause where you can see brothers
and sisters where you can share this.
It's like a charger.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: When you are draining, when your
phone is draining the power, you charge
it up, you'll see how the power goes up.
And that's why even if I'm
sick, you'll see me here.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: wear my mask, I'll come here.
Jethro D: Yep.
Because You need that
recharge, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Moses: Yeah.
And for me, I, I feel this happiness,
I feel something inside me.
Mm-hmm.
And that make me come more and more.
And I keep thinking, and I've seen people
be calling and say, oh man, I felt very
bad when I did not show up to church.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: You can see and, and, and, and,
and, and hear when someone is not making
to church, they feel something missing.
Yeah.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: That says, or
that tells us something.
Yes.
There is an importance when,
when I, I go to church.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Yep.
Um, so you, your mom recently
went through the temple.
You've been through the temple.
Have you been able to be
sealed to your dad and has your
mom been sealed to him yet?
Moses: Not yet.
It's uh, well be next.
Jethro D: Yep.
That'll be a,
that'll be something we
talk about next year,
Moses: right?
Yeah.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Um,
so how do you feel about that right now,
knowing that that is possible for you to
be sealed to him after his tragic death?
Moses: Man, I feel I cannot
wait for that moment to come.
Um, it's, uh, I believe
it'll be wonderful moment.
Um, they taught that we were taught,
like previously, I just mentioned
that in Africa we were taught if
you die, you're not repenting you.
It's done, it's over.
But when we read the scripture, Jesus
himself went and preached those words in
the spirit in, uh, in, um, spirit prison.
It, it shows that no, there is
something that can be done even
if someone has already passed.
Mm-hmm.
And it brings comfort to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jethro D: That's amazing.
Um, so let's, uh, let's
shift towards the future.
What are the goals and dreams
and the things, the way you
want to spend the next 10 years?
What are some of the things that are
top of mind for you that you wanna make
sure you accomplish and you keep doing?
Moses: Well?
I always think, what can
I do now to get, to make
get,
this branch grow uhhuh?
And
and, yep.
I always think about that.
I'm like, if it's something that,
um, if we need to preach more or
share the gospel more, or Invi invite
more, make some invitation more.
I think, um, I always think about it.
I always think, what can I do more
to, to, to make the branch grow?
And not only the branch, like I
mentioned, the way we invite people.
The other place in Burundi, we have
over 350 people attending church.
Jethro D: Wow.
Moses: Wow.
And I keep thinking, what can we do more?
Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: So I, I'm not only thinking
about myself, but I think about others.
There is so many people
who are there struggling.
They need this gospel,
they need restoration.
It may be hard, you know, each
individual has their own time.
It may be harder to understand today.
It may be harder to, uh, get it now.
Maybe one day you'll understand it.
Mm-hmm.
And if there is anything that I can
do to make it happen, I'm going forth.
Yeah, yeah.
Jethro D: Well, and, and what's so amazing
is you are not saying that people need
peace or jobs or, or something else.
What they need is the
gospel of Jesus Christ.
Why do they need the gospel of Jesus
Christ as opposed to, uh, stability
or peace in their country or whatever?
Why is the gospel the
thing that they need?
I
Moses: believe that
gospel is very important.
And I believe if someone understand and
have the gospel, they have everything.
Because I've seen people dying
by getting killed by shot.
I've seen people getting
sick and dying by sickness.
I've been seen, I've seen
people dying by malaria.
Now we think, okay, at the
end, where are they going?
So I think why I always
think about the gospel.
People can understand and get
the gospel because everything,
everything that we have has the end.
We came here because we came somewhere
and we will go back where we came from.
Now this is, this is
a part of preparation.
Okay?
You came here, you learned,
what did you learn?
Where, when, when you return,
what are you going to have?
That's alright, dad, you send me down
to learn and this is what I learned.
What are you having?
What are you taking with you in
this learning, in this lessons?
What are you having?
This is like preparing
someone for long journey.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Do they have
something that they need?
Do they have something that
they will present in front
of whoever, send them here.
Say, okay, you send me down.
This is what I learned.
This is what I have.
That is why I always think that
if you have a gospel, pretty
much you have everything.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Because clothing
Moses: will stay when you return.
I don't think you're going
to return with your money.
I don't think you're going
to return with your job.
Um, all these are for short time.
Now, when we prepare for the
something spiritual, this is for
the long term, and that is my aim.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Well, and that's something that makes me
think, we have so many things in our life
that we want to go a certain way and.
And sometimes that way is aligned with
what God wants and that's what happens.
And other times it's not that way.
Like you didn't want to
be driven from your home.
You didn't want to live in a refugee camp.
Um, but it brought you here.
And so are those things that you've
gone through, are they worth it or
was there a different way for you to
be able to arrive where you're at?
What are your thoughts on that?
Moses: I,
Jethro D: I can tell you've
thought about this, Moses.
Moses: so one day I had that
question, let me tell you.
One day I was sitting with my mom
and I was Mom, do you think if God
could be alive, we could be here?
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Mom was, no,
no way.
I think
Jethro D: God
Moses: did what he did because
he knew this will be coming and.
I think God prepared this for long time.
Jethro D: So
Moses: whatever, whatever trials
that I've been through that I went
through, I think now I can say they
are worth of it because of who I am now
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: and because of how many
lives I'm going to turn to touch
or, or how many more lives that
I'm, that's still needing this.
So I think okay, whatever
I, I've been through.
God knew that you got, this is the path.
Go this way.
At the end you're going to do this
and this, we can think about Paul.
Paul also, uh, drove many
of the fall of Jesus.
He drove them crazy.
He been a very crazy guy
doing some very bad things.
And at the end
Jethro D: the end
Moses: he got used them.
Yeah.
And he said, now I forget whatever
I was doing, I'm a new person.
I can do this.
So this bring me the idea to think that
God do let this happen because he has
some other stuff that he prepare for us.
And if I can go through some trials
or struggle or all this hard and rough
life time for that tomorrow, I can touch
millions of lives maybe worth of it.
Jethro D: Yeah,
Moses: yeah,
Jethro D: yeah.
Well, and you say that
having gone through.
Some terrible things that
we've already talked about.
And, and so you being able to say
that is a testimony to how true
that must be because a lot of people
could see the things that you've
seen and say, there is no God.
And I'm sure you know people
who say, Nope, there's no God.
Moses: a hundred percent I've said it.
Jethro D: seen, yeah.
So, so what do you say to those people
who say, no, there's no God, and you're
saying, uh, not only is there a God,
but he allowed this to happen so that
we could do something better with it.
Even all the terrible things you've seen.
Moses: Yes, I can say yes, he's the master
and he does, like today's lesson, one
person was teaching us and say, whatever
we have, it's not for on for our own
benefit, but for the benefit of others.
So yes, he can allow bad stuff
happen to you because he wants you.
He's preparing you for the
better and good of others.
It's like sacrificing two or 10
people and get millions of people.
Jesus Christ went through a lot, but
he took all the tribe, he took all the
suffering to get to billions of people.
Yeah.
To everybody.
To everybody.
So yes,
There's nobody who's exempt from him.
No.
Jethro D: If e even if they don't want
it, they still participate in that gift.
Moses: That is correct.
Yeah.
And, so yes, God can allow
terrible stuff to happen to you.
There is a stop.
There is a time when you can
lose your mom, lose your dad
or your son or your daughter.
You'll be Why, God, why did
you allow this to happen to me?
Yes, he does allow that for the good,
maybe for yourself, maybe to protect you
from something bad May that may happen.
He knows everything.
Jethro D: Yeah.
Moses: So he's the master.
I can say whatever trial that
people are going through, hold on.
There is a reason for it.
Jethro D: Yeah.
That's beautiful to hear.
And over the next 10 years, you and I
both are gonna go through trials and
everybody who's listening to this,
because that is a part of our life.
And hopefully those trials are not as bad
as what you have gone through in the past.
'cause you've been through a lot.
But regardless, you're still going to
have the power through the atonement
to make it through that no matter what.
Moses: Yes.
And that gives me, that gives me hope,
that gives me strength to get moving,
Jethro D: mm-hmm.
Moses: to get going because I know
there is a power through the priesthood.
Through all, everything that we have
now, we have given this priesthood,
now we have, we have the tools in
our hands to go through this trial.
And I know all this that we, we will
be going through today, tomorrow.
It's not saying when you come to
church, all the trials are gone.
No, but it's the way you get strength.
To hold on, like a, like something to
hold on, to go through those and to
be able to return where you came from.
Jethro D: Mm-hmm.
Moses: Mm-hmm.
Jethro D: Yeah.
And that is such a, a
faithful and peaceful
thing
to think about that it doesn't
matter what trials are in front of
us, they're there for our benefit.
They're there to help us and,
and we can understand that and
be confident in that and not ever
feel like God has forsaken us.
Um, so something that you mentioned
before is that your wife was
gonna have a miscarriage and
then you never finish the story.
And so did she have a miscarriage
or did the baby survive?
What happened there?
You
Moses: No,
so, so when I go one piece from the
trial, what I'm thinking, when we
go through some trial and we win,
we pass through it, it brings us a
strong, we have testimony strong.
Say, okay, I've been
through this, I made it.
Now you're strong than before
coming back to my wife.
No.
So we keep praying and the
doctors were so shocked.
So until the end, my, my wife got a baby.
Healthy baby now she's 14
Oh,
and, and so we, so it,
it's just beautiful.
You can see this gives us
something to believe in.
Even if people are going through
some rough time, they think, oh
God does not exist, this and this.
Oh, I've been go through a lot.
No, God do exist.
Yeah,
Yeah.
just hold on.
So like doctors were thinking, no,
your wife won't make this baby.
We, we, no, we can't.
And each time we go to doctor's
office Oh yeah, she's still there.
Yeah.
Jethro D. Jones: Okay.
what else would you like to add, Moses?
Moses: one, I'll say thank you
so much for taking time, giving
me this opportunity to be here.
I appreciate you and the effort
that you took and the steps
that you took to get me here.
The other thing I'll say,
thank you too for listening to
general conference, and this is,
This is a good example of
what we hear from our general
conference, pour into practice
to reach to more, lives in the world.
And,
I'm so grateful for that.
And also I will finish by saying
whatever people are going through,
God see us and he knows us and.
It doesn't matter you, white, black,
Asian, whatever, color, ethnicity,
or race, it doesn't matter.
We all brothers and sisters, we
came from God, we were created.
If we can remember the gospel,
it says, let's create the human.
In our own image,
no matter place we came from, no
matter church congregation, you
go, we all brothers and sisters.
We just need to come together and serve
him and, understand what he wants from us.
What can we do to make it better, to reach
millions of others who are still in need?
So I can say.
we have one, one goal is to return
where we came from because we came
here because we were sent here.
We came from somewhere we will return.
How are we going to return?
We gotta be as one.
Prepared and be ready to
go where we came from.
It doesn't matter, color, race,
or whatever place you came from.
Congregation, churches, we pray while
believing the real, the story, the truth
is we will return where we came from.
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, that's powerful.
Moses, thank you so much for doing this.
This has been awesome and I so
appreciate your story and I can't
wait to hear how you make the next 10
years, a decade never to be forgotten.
Moses: Thank you so much.
I'll be glad to be part of this
and reach other people who still
need to hear this and I'll be glad.
Thank you.
Have a wonderful day and God bless you.
Jethro D. Jones: Thank you and your Bye
